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Thread: Trader and economy balance thread

  1. #1
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Trader and economy balance thread

    Hey guys and gals, I am working on making traders and the economy as good as possible and need your input. My goals are:

    1.) Support all play styles, so non crafters can get what they need.
    For this let me know if there are any items or resources sorely missing from trader inventory.

    2.) Make it possible to make a living role playing.
    Whether it be a lumberjack, a rock miner, a blacksmith, hunter, crafter selling his goods, scavenger selling things, I think you should be able to make a modest living. I'd want to know what trades are under powered and which ones are overpowered or not even supported.

    3.) Perk balance. Are the trading perks too good? I typically get by without them so maybe they are OP?

  2. #2
    Inventor carbonkid's Avatar
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    Interesting idea.
    First thing that comes to mind is price difference between traders.
    In most games where you trade, selling and buying from diffrent traders is very common.

    Second thing that comes to mind is. Roleplaying as for example a lumberjack will probably be hard to balance. Due to the nature of game stage.
    Since you will have a modest living you won't probably be able to afford the expensive defence you need to survive late bm's.
    But if you could rent a night at the trader it might work.

  3. #3
    Nomad
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    Hey guys and gals, I am working on making traders and the economy as good as possible and need your input. My goals are:

    1.) Support all play styles, so non crafters can get what they need.
    For this let me know if there are any items or resources sorely missing from trader inventory.

    2.) Make it possible to make a living role playing.
    Whether it be a lumberjack, a rock miner, a blacksmith, hunter, crafter selling his goods, scavenger selling things, I think you should be able to make a modest living. I'd want to know what trades are under powered and which ones are overpowered or not even supported.

    3.) Perk balance. Are the trading perks too good? I typically get by without them so maybe they are OP?
    Something that is SORELY missing is "Bottle of Acid." I cannot find them anywhere and we need them to make tires.

  4. #4
    Inventor Jugginator's Avatar
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    I'll mess with a few things and report back, but on hand, I can definitely attest to the limit traders will buy stuff from you sometimes. Namely for crafting weapons/guns/armor. I know the limit is there for balance reasons, but I think the (I think it's 3) 3 per item limit kinda kills it and makes it not entirely worth the trip to them.

    I suggest, perhaps, instead of limiting the quantity per restock, give the traders a set amount of coins they have per reset. Kinda like how Morrowind/etc NPCs have a certain amount of coins. I find it silly how I can only sell a certain amount of 'x' item, then get refused to sell them more even after spending 10k on things. On second thought, I suppose this can be exploitable due to XP, so why not remove that option entirely (receiving XP); it's not entirely needed, and gaining the ability to, say, sell a few guns to them then buy a high-priced item - allowing us to sell more things back and buy something else.

  5. #5
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbonkid View Post
    Interesting idea.
    First thing that comes to mind is price difference between traders.
    In most games where you trade, selling and buying from diffrent traders is very common.

    Second thing that comes to mind is. Roleplaying as for example a lumberjack will probably be hard to balance. Due to the nature of game stage.
    Since you will have a modest living you won't probably be able to afford the expensive defence you need to survive late bm's.
    But if you could rent a night at the trader it might work.
    Are you saying the same goods at a different trader have a difference in price?

    With the upcoming blood moon optoins (every day,3,7,10,14,30,random, never) a person can role play more freely and aren't forced into horde night inevitable destruction. So being a rogue traveler with just a few shacks to stay in here and there should be viable, or just a guy with a basic brick fort should be able to withstand a few wandering hordes or heat map hordes. Of course you can scavenge concrete mix now so a small concrete base is definitely doable early game now.

  6. #6
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armor9 View Post
    Something that is SORELY missing is "Bottle of Acid." I cannot find them anywhere and we need them to make tires.
    Good point, I'll add that in.

  7. #7
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    I know it sounds counter intuitive, but having traders specialize in a type of product was pretty successful in my mod. Food trader, blacksmith, general goods, etc...

    This not only limited the op-ness of finding a trader, but allowed consistent purchasing to encourage real travel and exploration.

    I just wish there had been a way to limit what they purchased back (by category).

  8. #8
    Inventor carbonkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    Are you saying the same goods at a different trader have a difference in price?

    With the upcoming blood moon optoins (every day,3,7,10,14,30,random, never) a person can role play more freely and aren't forced into horde night inevitable destruction. So being a rogue traveler with just a few shacks to stay in here and there should be viable, or just a guy with a basic brick fort should be able to withstand a few wandering hordes or heat map hordes. Of course you can scavenge concrete mix now so a small concrete base is definitely doable early game now.

    Oooh blood moon options!! That opens a lot of diffrent playstyles and opportunities. I like what I hear a lot!

    Yes. Diffrent traders have diffrent prices. In kenshin you see a how much of the reference price the trader gives. Like 120% or 80%. Its a nice way to inform the player a objects trade value.

    Traders could also be specialized in different fields (give more for special goods)
    Like Joel specializes in weapons and materials that are used for that.
    Bob in buildings
    And Jen in medical and armor.

    Meaning you could buy a gun cheap at Bob and sell it for a profit at Joel.

  9. #9
    Hunter
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    I don't think perks are OP, because despite abundant loot you get to a point (and fast) that looting a POI will not result in reward, but into a modest profit. So you really need to maximize this profit in traders.

    About goods, should be very rare, but you could add beakers. Also, every rotation (all traders) should always guarantee 7.62mm ammo. I know rng is a bitch, but in my current save (day 62) already got 3 rotations without a single 7.62mm on sale and now mostly is steel version.

  10. #10
    Leader Tin's Avatar
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    Different traders have different goods they specialize in. Give ppl a reason to go and actively find them all.
    • 1 trader has 80% mostly food/med supplies and 20% general goods.
    • 1 trader has 80% mostly ammo and guns, 20% general.
    • 1 trader has 80% mostly building supplies, 20% general.
    • 1 trader has 80% clothing/armor goods, 20% general.
    • 1 trader IS a general goods trader and has equal amounts available for everything.


    All traders have a quest to travel to the other trader locations like:
    • The general goods trader has a quest to go to the Foodie trader.
    • The foodie trader has a quest to go to the building supply trader.
    • The building supply trader has a quest to go to the Armor trader.
    • The armor trader has a quest to go to the weapon/ammo trader.
    • The weapon/ammo trader has a quest to go to the general goods trader.


    heh, kinda like gup said and it has a built in balance just by goods available that each shop mostly deals in.

  11. #11
    Leader Royal Deluxe's Avatar
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    Vending machines
    * add again more coffee to the vendingmachines
    * Small ammounts of Bandages
    * Small amounts of Painkillers
    * Small amounts of ammo (maybe)
    * More cans
    * Less fresh food

    Thats how i would fill my vending machines as a trader in the 7D2D world
    (my mod 3 pictures how my my Vending machines are filled https://7daystodie.com/forums/showth...l=1#post923858

    Trader
    Trader are too much RNG dependent
    In one game you have a Q4 Auger on day 1 by a trader or a Q5 by loot.
    And next game the first auger you see is at level 100 the Q6 auger you produced yourself.

    In my opinion the Perk buff is far too strong. Maybe rise the Basis value to that what you have now at Perk 2/5. And distribute the Value you have now at 3-4 of 5 to 1-5 of 5

    AMMO
    Trader need more ammo
    FAR MORE ammo
    Did i mention AMMO ?
    There is only one reason to visit traders after day 49 and this is AMMO
    A M M O (can i make the text blinking ?)

    No really, if you want enough ammo in the game you can
    Spend 4/7 days of the week by harvesting boulders
    or
    Move too all traders and Nitpick loot at 100% lootabundance
    or
    Play on 200% Loot and still Nitpick the best lootcrates

    If you play normal you never will have enough ammo

    Even with Daylie restocking traders it can be problematic (Still testplay)
    Last edited by Royal Deluxe; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:04 PM.

  12. #12
    Colony Founder Aurelius's Avatar
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    Suggestion:

    Add a "Special Order" capability, so that you can request a particular item for the trader to get in stock when the next reset occurs. You could make the special order item cost some multiple of the normal price (eg 3x) to represent the extra effort required to bring in the order.

    -A

  13. #13
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    Remove the vending machines in POIs. They are really breaking immersion, and go against the "break and take all you want" mechanic.
    The traders themself are more plausible, as they would theoretically protect their property. (would be good if they had NPC guards or turrets of some kind)

    Vendors should also have a "currently demanded" sections. Some materials or items for example that they want and pay over the usual price.
    The player could specifically produce those to satisfy this traders demand.

    Other items should only be bought for a few items at max. Such that the traders demand for an item type fills up like
    "3/6 flashlights" meaning that the trader already has 3, and only wants 3 more flashlights max. (until the stock is cleared after 2 weeks or so).

    High level resource items like steel should always be available in some amount. This allows the game to hold of the players leveling up to making it themself.
    The trader could also charge for using the forges and workbenches for that day. (but on the other hand always having one).

  14. #14
    Leader Royal Deluxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    Remove the vending machines in POIs. ...
    Or maybe make a poi that is only for that like a bus stop

    But yes, a vending machine fresh restocked in a Zombie infested basement ... is not immersive.

  15. #15
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    Beakers are sorely needed.

    Also, it would be nice to sell items at vending machines even the amount you could sell had a cap.

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