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Thread: Game feels like its punishing me for levelling up

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    So the difficulty is making you avoid POIs and quests, but you don't feel the need to lower it. Mind blown.
    green zombies are for the most part not difficult. they are HP sponges. There's a difference. They pretty much have the same attack animations etc as their regular counterparts, so its just increased HP and damage that's it.

    Anyway myself and others like to play harder modes because we do enjoy the damage taken, it makes you more cautious. Lower difficulties are boring, there is no danger when you can take 20 hits and not die. That's why myself and others won't turn down the difficulty.

    What we want is to keep how much damage we take but not have HP sponge zombies.

    I've finally found some ways to mod my game that alleviates some of this pain, so I can deal with it now, but it still leaves something to be desired.
    Last edited by Cirion; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:39 AM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    Holy crap how many bullets do you fire?

    I am the miner for a group of 3, and 2 days solid mining per week is enough to make bullets for all of us (and 4 turrets) for horde night, and we still raid as many tier 5 quest POIs as we can in between.

    btw you are not digging actual mines are you? Surface boulder mining is far more productive.
    Umm no, mining for a specific ore is by far WAY more productive (especially when you're higher level and have the perks). Bonus if you find other ores in the same area. In my recent mining expedition I mined for about 6-8 hours in-game and ended with 4-5 stacks of iron ore. So around 4800 - 6000 iron ores. Smelt that and you'll get 16K+ iron. How many boulders do you have to destroy to get that much ore? Boulders are by far way less common than iron veins.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPanda0421 View Post
    Umm no, mining for a specific ore is by far WAY more productive (especially when you're higher level and have the perks). Bonus if you find other ores in the same area. In my recent mining expedition I mined for about 6-8 hours in-game and ended with 4-5 stacks of iron ore. So around 4800 - 6000 iron ores. Smelt that and you'll get 16K+ iron. How many boulders do you have to destroy to get that much ore? Boulders are by far way less common than iron veins.
    I'm Str 10, Miner69er 4/5 and Mother Lode 5/5. I need 105 boulders to get ~ 4.8k raw iron. Mining surface boulders is not bad if you only need raw iron, but for lead/coal/nitrate underground mine is by far the best option.

  4. #94
    Inventor Jugginator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    No, I am saying USE THE DIFFICULTY SETTING. If you feel there are too many rads, lower it and there will be less. If you want more challenge increase it. Complaining about the occurrence of rads is just dumb when there is a setting that will fix it to your preference.

    So the difficulty is making you avoid POIs and quests, but you don't feel the need to lower it. Mind blown.
    Except this statement is completely false. 1. Noone is speaking of difficulty but you. 2. Lowering the difficulty doesn't make green armies in POIs vanish.

    What we're speaking of is it's just not worth the effort to go into POIs, namely solo or with one friend. Annoying != Difficult. It's not difficult to kill 30 rad zombies in a POI, but with the progression skill-tree wise, it's annoying. You can't have both high-damage perks and crafting perks by the time you're faced with rad armies, the math doesn't add up. Just as you came to my post saying I was complaining about it being too hard (completely ignoring everything I said), I WANT hard. But what I don't want is to be faced by an army of bullet sponges that takes me an entire in-game day and halfway through the night to go through a single POI. That would be acceptable -- if I was in the end-game stage. But I am not. I am barely out of early-game.

    Just because you and your large-group are all armed with AK-s and most of you concentrated in combat perks because you have other(s) who can put points into Int and steamroll through green armies doesn't mean solo or duo players need to suffer through the 24-hour warzones in POIs in the transition between early and mid game.

    So, there should be transitions. Not early-game no rads straight to armies of rads. There's currently nothing in between. This isn't a case of your alegged "ermagerd git gut bruh you sux" -- nobody is complaining about that.

    In a16, I ran constant spawning blood moons with XML edits, banned the use of anything but wood and iron in bases, banned AI-trolling in bases, banned all guns except the blunderbuss on insane difficulty, made world spawning spawn cops, wights, zombie bears (blood moons had nothing but the toughest zombies) and was still bored. Do I still need to "lel omg git gud"?

  5. #95
    Zombie Hunter AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    I still believe that if we had more and more ammo, glue, and repair kits in POIs as gamestage increases it would balance out.

    At any stage, you need to be able to leave a POI with more valuable resource than you started with.

    Increasing loot drop rate from zombies with increasing numbers of these items included in them, as your gamestage increases, would help even more.

  6. #96
    Inventor Jugginator's Avatar
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    Yeah, I still feel like there should be a transition in between though. Like all non-rad (ferals too) get stronger, then at a higher stage, you get the rads. I one-shot most reg or ferals and have to pummel rads half a dozen or more times in the head to take one down. Definitely increased ammo/repair kit stuff for POI rewards. Too often I spend 24-30 game hours clearing a single POI and then I get mid or low-level guns, some forged steel etc and a handful of bullets as rewards. Then I gotta play on and off for a day or two before I can do it again lol. Glue isn't an issue anymore, and I farmed up a few thousand gunpower/ wrenched enough cars for plenty of brass but... I mean that took a couple RL hours over two days to do. I get it's not a CS-GO style game where I jump into a match, play, get off but. I'd like to enjoy some of the beautifully done POIs at some point. Without falling asleep. The line between boring and taking 24 hours in POIs is non existent. Lower the difficulty and steamroll. Increase it and engage in WW2 in a poi.

  7. #97
    Zombie Hunter AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Another problem I think is that there simply is not enough zombie types.
    Yes, I would love more variety and more to look at, but that's a different story.
    It applies here because since there is a lack of variety, they are forced to recycle the same zombies into ferals and then rads... and these come rather quickly because they need to. If they didn't, things would get insanely boring.
    On top of that, because there are so few zombies that are introduced right away, they really don't differ much in stats. The bigger ones are only another hit or two with a club.

    I tried to imagine setting up a personal mod where I rank each individual zombie from weakest to strongest and apply meaningful stat differences. Initially, there is only one zombie. After every 7 days, a new zombie is introduced into the mix, and so on. I think it would be fun, and you could stretch out that gamestage more. However, that boredom factor of the same zombies especially in the beginning would be brutal. What would be nice is about 3 times the zombie types. Then I could say, ok, give players mainly 3 easy zombies the first week, then introduce one or two each week. Perhaps you may run into next week's zombie rarely in a POI... but not ferals or greenies just yet. Leave special ability zombies for last. Then bring in ferals following the same flow. Then bring in rads following the same flow.
    All this while getting more and more ammo and repair kits to make up for the increasing sponginess. <- This part wouldn't be too bad, as I could just create new ammo loot groups with higher ammo count tied to higher probability as gamestage increases, and then apply that loot group to almost every loot container. It's just a lot of work defining the counts and probabilities for all those stages. It would be easier to write a script to generate the code.

  8. #98
    Inventor Alphado-Jaki's Avatar
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    Problem is, current system allow/encourage player to spam peaky progression too much.

    Such as, just purchase intellect too much to acquire steel armor, but no purchase 1 or 2 on heavy armor or pain tolerance, which is furthermore powerful and cheaper than to cost int 9 or 10. I don't think easy to encourage player to notice and to purchase another option. Maybe better visualized ui will help them understand entire system.

  9. #99
    Inventor Jugginator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    ~
    Yes, 100% agree there. In all honesty, I've always thought slightly-different, highly disfigured and unrecognizable zombies would be better. That way it saves on performance since you have practically similar, not as detailed models, which would allow massive swarms rather than a handful of the same... and I don't think it would get boring. Case in point, black ops 1 / 2 zombies modes. My friends and I could go through 6-hour runs, fighting zounds of similar looking zombies and never get bored. The game progressively increased their health and (well, for the first few rounds) damage, and kept increasing the number of spawns per player every set interval of rounds. That's why I think a sort of tier of the zombie-difficulty would be better than having normal zeds > boss zeds. It just.. idk it gets old. Like I said, the difficulty isn't the problem, but it's just I hit end-game stage difficulty waaaaaay before my character does, and it just becomes a slogging-7-day-war, which wouldn't be so if my character's combat skills were end-game. But, they're not.

    I play on Survivalist because regular zombies and even ferals/cops/wights are easy to deal with, and instead of more zombies/harder zombies I get rad-armies nearly at the start of the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Alphado-Jaki View Post
    Problem is, current system allow/encourage player to spam peaky progression too much.

    Such as, just purchase intellect too much to acquire steel armor, but no purchase 1 or 2 on heavy armor or pain tolerance, which is furthermore powerful and cheaper than to cost int 9 or 10. I don't think easy to encourage player to notice and to purchase another option. Maybe better visualized ui will help them understand entire system.
    I think the system is fine, but I agree. Solo, even duo, gets punished for crafting... in a sense. You go straight-combat and have no crafting to deal with rad armies, yet if you go for crafting, you have the stuff to kill the rad armies, but no skills to make it worth it. I skipped on medical, master chef, and most of the other crafting that didn't give me things like gun/ammo, steel, motorcycle and armor crafting, yet I still lack the combat skills to deal with the rad armies in POIs (which started before day 21...)

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPanda0421 View Post
    Umm no, mining for a specific ore is by far WAY more productive (especially when you're higher level and have the perks). Bonus if you find other ores in the same area. In my recent mining expedition I mined for about 6-8 hours in-game and ended with 4-5 stacks of iron ore. So around 4800 - 6000 iron ores. Smelt that and you'll get 16K+ iron. How many boulders do you have to destroy to get that much ore? Boulders are by far way less common than iron veins.
    1 day mining boulders gives me:

    3000 Nitrate
    3000 Lead
    3000 Coal
    9000 Iron Ore

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jugginator View Post
    Except this statement is completely false. 1. Noone is speaking of difficulty but you. 2. Lowering the difficulty doesn't make green armies in POIs vanish.
    No but it reduces their number considerably. You speak as if those initial groups of rads you are meeting are immediately end-game. That's laughable. The number and type of rads increases with gamestage just like everything else. You guys are going to have kittens when you see gamestage 500 rads.

    Just because you and your large-group are all armed with AK-s and most of you concentrated in combat perks because you have other(s) who can put points into Int and steamroll through green armies doesn't mean solo or duo players need to suffer through the 24-hour warzones in POIs in the transition between early and mid game.
    Large group? I duo the vast majority of the time, and one other guy plays occasionally and always turns up for horde night. Since my main buddy is always Int specced, I go into POIs solo much of the time. Yet I have no problem whatsoever with the rads and I am playing on Survivalist. And using an AK in POIs is madness. I simply don't understand that. Shotgun is far better.

    So, there should be transitions. Not early-game no rads straight to armies of rads.
    There are, you just haven't seen the bigger picture. Those "armies" you mentioned are nothing. 20 grunt rads is not in the same league as 20 Biker/Cop/Spider rads. Especially Spiders.

    Do I still need to "lel omg git gud"?
    No idea. However, you are complaining about rads coming too early on Survivalist? Same setting as me. Since I know for a fact on Survivalist the rads are fine for a combat specced character (I never once thought they appeared too early)....then, I have to assume....yes, yes you do?

    Or you are playing solo, in which case I sympathise but feel you should aim your complaint in a different direction. The fact that a solo player has to spec Int but will still have his GS rise at the same rate as mine is definitely a problem. [Though I solved it somewhat in my own solo runs....by lowering difficulty.]

    I play on Survivalist because regular zombies and even ferals/cops/wights are easy to deal with, and instead of more zombies/harder zombies I get rad-armies nearly at the start of the game.
    Aren't the rads the "harder zombies" you crave?? I don't get it. What normal zombie is harder than a rad? Rad Spiders are the hardest enemy in the game as far as I am concerned; especially in tight spaces and large numbers. And more zombies that were non-rad, even Ferals, would not be hard at all. So what exactly are you looking for here? A zombie type that isn't in the game?

    Footnote: I have some sympathy for your complaint about the time it takes. Tier 5 POIs take me an entire day which is annoying (though fun). However it wasn't anything like that till my GS exceed 400-ish. When my GS was 200~300 odd, I was doing a half dozen tier 3's per day.
    Last edited by Ghostlight; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:37 AM.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    1 day mining boulders gives me:

    3000 Nitrate
    3000 Lead
    3000 Coal
    9000 Iron Ore
    Ok destroy only boulders for another day, then the day after that. Then destroy boulders for 7 days straight. Can you get the same numbers? How about only destroying boulders for 14 days straight. Do you still get the same numbers? Boulders are limited compared to ore veins.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPanda0421 View Post
    Ok destroy only boulders for another day, then the day after that. Then destroy boulders for 7 days straight. Can you get the same numbers? How about only destroying boulders for 14 days straight. Do you still get the same numbers? Boulders are limited compared to ore veins.
    Well on our current run we are on day 60 something, and yes I can, why would I get any less?

    If you asked me to guess how many of the total boulders on our 8k map I've destroyed in that time, I'd say less than 1%. Boulders are finite, sure but the number of them is so huge as to not matter all.
    Last edited by Ghostlight; 2 Weeks Ago at 06:44 AM.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    Well on our current run we are on day 60 something, and yes I can. If you asked me to guess how many of the total boulders on our 8k map I've destroyed in that time, I'd say less than 1%.
    You'll run out of boulders 100x faster than I run out of ore veins in an 8k map. I really doubt it's less than 1%.

  15. #105
    Fun Pimps Staff Gazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_ahriman View Post
    So, is Gazz in the hot seat?
    I occasionally "make mistakes" to not arouse suspicion.

    Looks like I'll have to "fix" the scaling of the green guys which currently can be as high as 11x the probability of a similar feral being picked.

    Or in other words: OMG TFP are listening to all the whiners and ruin all the challenge in the game! Or something to that effect.

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