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Thread: This games standing according to devs?

  1. #1
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    This games standing according to devs?

    Not even a month since I left I know.
    But now that 2 1/2 months are over, I think TFPs can finally judge the A17, which they said they didn't want to do prematurely.

    My conclusion:
    Reviews still bomb like hell. At best 60% positive is not a game I would recommend, although "SCUM" is rated even worse and besides the obvious lack of content bc its EA, it is probably the best game out there.
    Player numbers are comparable, if slightly worse than with A16.
    And the forum does seem slightly more positive than when A17 initially released (although I don't know if ppl who hated it just left and only left the positive guys or if players have actually grown to like the new version).

    I can't say anything about salesnumbers, but when keeping in mind that 7d2d was on steamsale AND on humblebundle AND had its .1 patch within 3 weeks (which generally gives a playerboost in previous alphas), I would say this Alpha was not a success nor a step foreward and was just a tredmilling standstill (moving foreward in some areas, moving back in others creating an equalibrium).



    So my question and topic of discussion is:
    What DO the devs think of these numbers, now that you have an overview? What do you (playerbase) think?
    And with some posts claiming A19 might not be happening (instead opting to beta after A18) where do you think this game is headed?

    Ipersonally still think they have ruined the game I have grown to love and besides few features (ragdoll, vehicles and more pois) most things were a step back for me.


    ONE IMPORTANT THING:
    I do not want to hate on this game any more than I already have. So please, if you can, keep comments like "omg its just so much better you don't know quality" to yourself. If you like it that is fine and totally your opinion.

  2. #2
    Colony Founder SnowDog1942's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    Not even a month since I left I know.
    But now that 2 1/2 months are over, I think TFPs can finally judge the A17, which they said they didn't want to do prematurely.

    My conclusion:
    Reviews still bomb like hell. At best 60% positive is not a game I would recommend, although "SCUM" is rated even worse and besides the obvious lack of content bc its EA, it is probably the best game out there.
    Player numbers are comparable, if slightly worse than with A16.
    And the forum does seem slightly more positive than when A17 initially released (although I don't know if ppl who hated it just left and only left the positive guys or if players have actually grown to like the new version).

    I can't say anything about salesnumbers, but when keeping in mind that 7d2d was on steamsale AND on humblebundle AND had its .1 patch within 3 weeks (which generally gives a playerboost in previous alphas), I would say this Alpha was not a success nor a step foreward and was just a tredmilling standstill (moving foreward in some areas, moving back in others creating an equalibrium).



    So my question and topic of discussion is:
    What DO the devs think of these numbers, now that you have an overview? What do you (playerbase) think?
    And with some posts claiming A19 might not be happening (instead opting to beta after A18) where do you think this game is headed?

    Ipersonally still think they have ruined the game I have grown to love and besides few features (ragdoll, vehicles and more pois) most things were a step back for me.


    ONE IMPORTANT THING:
    I do not want to hate on this game any more than I already have. So please, if you can, keep comments like "omg its just so much better you don't know quality" to yourself. If you like it that is fine and totally your opinion.
    Id respond but im gonna go post stuff on forums of games that I dont like.

  3. #3
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    I can't see anyone being satisfied, never mind happy, with the recent reviews on Steam, can you? To claim to be so would surely mean being in denial.

    I completely understand those reviews though. This is one of my favorite games of all time (I'm over 50 now for the record) and I absolutely know what I am doing in the game, and how to do it well (I am 110% a min-maxer). I would also like to mention that historically I always enjoyed the first weeks of a new run more than the later stages.

    Yet with all that said, my most recent new (solo) play-through was/is just tedious. I really had to force myself to get to day 4. The game is just not fun in the first few weeks any more, and the perk system feels just horrendous. There are many "must have" perks - there is no flexibility here; you pretty much have to take perks in a preset optimum order, or suffer an even MORE tedious experience).

    The reviews do not surprise me in the slightest. If I am not having fun, god knows what new or inexperienced players are feeling.

  4. #4
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    They basically took a giant dump on their game in this patch. Taken from another thread I made, they did the following,

    -Increased repair time
    -Decreased resource gain
    -Zombies attack weakest blocks as one (group think)
    -Increased zombie Damage
    -Reduced block durability (downgrading gone)
    -Removed ability to remove limbs.
    -Zombies jump longer
    -Zombies Dig
    -Stamina drain

    They're trying to make their game more hardcore, dangerous and challenging. Problem is, after 100 hours of game knowledge, it's not really a challenge anymore. So why do I, like so many others, have 1000s of hours in this game? Because we like building, because we like creating, because we like the genre. In this patch they took a huge dump on the all those things.

    The AI is an absolute joke. In what zombie movie EVER do zombies act like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MVhjBc6eQI
    They've disregarded the genre because they're trying to be hardcore. It's beyond frustrating.

    They also attacked our ability to be creative. So many base types are now impossible because of how hard the zombies hit and how they all attack one block at once. Like to build? They took a dump on that too. Slowed down resource gain, slowed down building time, slowed down repair time. It's just one tediousness on top of another. They're trying to make their game something its not, completely disregarding what made people like it in the first place.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    Not even a month since I left I know.
    But now that 2 1/2 months are over, I think TFPs can finally judge the A17, which they said they didn't want to do prematurely.

    My conclusion:
    Reviews still bomb like hell. At best 60% positive is not a game I would recommend, although "SCUM" is rated even worse and besides the obvious lack of content bc its EA, it is probably the best game out there.
    Player numbers are comparable, if slightly worse than with A16.
    And the forum does seem slightly more positive than when A17 initially released (although I don't know if ppl who hated it just left and only left the positive guys or if players have actually grown to like the new version).

    I can't say anything about salesnumbers, but when keeping in mind that 7d2d was on steamsale AND on humblebundle AND had its .1 patch within 3 weeks (which generally gives a playerboost in previous alphas), I would say this Alpha was not a success nor a step foreward and was just a tredmilling standstill (moving foreward in some areas, moving back in others creating an equalibrium).



    So my question and topic of discussion is:
    What DO the devs think of these numbers, now that you have an overview? What do you (playerbase) think?
    And with some posts claiming A19 might not be happening (instead opting to beta after A18) where do you think this game is headed?

    Ipersonally still think they have ruined the game I have grown to love and besides few features (ragdoll, vehicles and more pois) most things were a step back for me.


    ONE IMPORTANT THING:
    I do not want to hate on this game any more than I already have. So please, if you can, keep comments like "omg its just so much better you don't know quality" to yourself. If you like it that is fine and totally your opinion.

    Links, besides Steam reviews, would give more weight to your rant.

    Now that you made your catharsis, one constructive idea: Try a poll! Let's see "these numbers" upclose.

    edit: oh I see this forum doesn't support polls. Well, you can still ask people and go counting their answers.

    edit 2: oh as for me, I'm loving the game as it is. I'm having a ball.
    Last edited by apostrophe; 02-08-2019 at 08:31 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    There are many "must have" perks - there is no flexibility here; you pretty much have to take perks in a preset optimum order, or suffer an even MORE tedious experience).

    The reviews do not surprise me in the slightest. If I am not having fun, god knows what new or inexperienced players are feeling.
    This more than anything.

    Want to kill a zombie with an arrow to the face in 1 or 2 shots rather than 5 shots? Tee hee, take these perks. You've got the "perks" now? Haha now all the zombies glow and its near useless again.

    Want to run further than 10 meters? Want to gain some resource? Take these "perks" Haha, still twice as slow as before. Got all that concrete together? Zombies treat it like tissue paper anyway.

    Woah, that's a huge sprawling base you've got there! Must have taken you a long time. Too bad zombies group think to the weakest spot and make it useless.

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    The most played game i've ever played.
    I moan about things in the game..BUT..I just love this game to bits

  8. #8
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    I gotta agree 1,000% with all the criticisms mentioned here.

    My group and I just switched back to a16.4 last night after almost abandoning the game, and it's night and day how much more fun it is.


    I'll re-list my observations from this thread here:

    Lack of Grinding:
    Everything in a16 seems so much faster, from harvesting, block damage, leveling up, etc. It had a good balance of bursts of productivity followed by a recharge period where you run out of stamina that you can use for looting\crafting\menu time. I plan on documenting exact differences here so I can be subjective about it.

    Immediate Positive Feedback:
    You gain levels and xp for doing most things, these skill levels provide positive reinforcement that make you feel rewarded for everything you do. I was surprised by how much this made a difference, but it seems to be a subliminal thing.

    Simplified Perks:
    In a16 the perks are pretty straightforward and you don't generally need to invest in one thing to get another. Generally it's a balance of level gating / skill usage / perk buys that feels natural for us and is a gratifying balance.

    Dumb Zombies:
    We really like how the zombies get stuck and swarm buildings without knowing the exact weakness of things. We never exploited the AI in general so we never really had any problems with it. Right now the zombies look like enemies in a tower defense game, all in a single congo line breaching the same exact point. Not to mention the dmg multiplier they get from doing it.

    Builder's Dream:
    I didn't realize how much I hated the saw table till we went back to a16.4. Having to run back and fourth to a crafting station constantly while trying to build something takes a lot of the fun out of it. Between that, needing to grind for perks \ resources, and zombies being able to tear through buildings, we just ended up not having much fun with the building aspect of the game anymore. On the subject of crafting, I preferred being able to combine things for increased durability and having more slots in general for crafting and smelting. Just less grindy all around in a16.

    Looting vs Perk Buying:
    a16 seems to be balance towards looting. Schematics are found, key crafting requirements are found, etc. There's alot more unknown and randomness in each game, and that seems to be a key element in our fun factor. In a17 you can just level up unrelated things, buy everything you need through perks (vehicles, guns, block types, etc) There's TONS of perk choices in a17, which I thought was good at first, but after going back to a16 I just prefer to have to either hunt for them (minibike, schematics, etc) or just get them automatically for upgrading my skills (block types via unlocking concrete/steel). For us, the addition of all the perks didn't help anything, just seemed to exist to justify the grindyness of the rest of the balance changes, which we didn't care for.

    Infinite Maps:
    This is a big one. We like to explore and we kept hitting the radiation zone in a17, which completely shatters our enjoyment and makes the worlds seem super small. This might in fact be the modding dealbreaker because I don't know that it's possible to bring this back.


    There's more I'm sure, but this was just what jumped out at me after playing a16 again.
    Last edited by OldManBrian; 02-08-2019 at 04:53 PM.

  9. #9
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    I did many playthroughs of A17 so I can say that now I sort of hate the perk system. Everytime I try to specialize and do something different you just can't, because you are forced into certain direction if you want to get to end game.

    I m talking mostly about intelligence since you can't play without it. Than those few extra points you invest into generic perks like boom headshot and skull crusher. Ofcourse later you spread those points around, but you cant just go for example with lucky looter and hope you will find good tools in loot, vehicles parts... everything has to be made by yourself so therefore you need to invest points in the same skills over and over. I do love crafting part of the game, but I would like it to be versatile, so you can play different styles with repeated playthrough - you just always end up with the same stuff even if you want to go different way.

    Again mods shouldn't replace the quality and gun parts - thats a cheap and very awkward attempt to replace something. Mods would be a good addition to the weapon building from A16, but replacing is not a step in right direction.

    Perks instead of books - no thank you and magazines are really poor attempts to fill something into the book shelfs. I remember being exited looking for those - though A16 system should be implemented and improved as well, it was waaaay better than A17 system.

    I still think A16 system was waaaaaay better, it prolonged the game experience and kept it fun to later stages, despite the fact you were gathering stuff faster. Now I hardly ever play past day 35 -45, you just buy every perk you need with killing zeds, looting soon becomes trivial since you get abundance of the same loot over and over, building bases is also trivial, since you cant go for versatility since blocks crumbles in few seconds ( steel or concrete or wood - doesnt matter since they all almost instantly crumble ), so you are forced to play the way where you exploit the AI.
    And have I mentioned totally not fun zombie AI? - not just blood moon hordes, but those wandering zombies that always just happen to wander into the house you are looting even if they don't hear or see you? Man better than trained police dogs, i tell you that.

    Now I never use electricity anymore - since there is no real use for it, because of silly AI. Those times I made bases build with blade traps and electric fences are over - ofcourse you can build them now just for the looks, but other than that completely useless. Explosives could as well be removed from the game totally at this stage.

    Problem with current A17 build is the fun ends much much sooner than it ended in A16 where you had nothing else left to do, despite the fact TFP increased the grind, reduced resources and all what OP has mentioned, A17 just becomes repetitive .
    As said A17 brought some nice goodies, but took away almost everything else from what was good in A16. A16 was great and it felt like A16 endgame was a mid game in the concept of a gold version of the game and I was really hoping A17 would bring some real endgame content that would upgrade whole experience, instead it just artificially stretched all that A16 progress to last longer in more boring and grinding way than before, on top with taking away good leveling skills system and replacing it what feels like quickly put together perk system without a good thought put into it.

    All in all despite everything I would say 7d2d its a great game, it doesn't need much to remain great as it was untill A16. ( especially A16 skill system, which you should just implement with new skills and buffs ). A17 brought some good addition ( like graphics, POI's, combat system ( except horrendous aiming where you no longer swing but only poke your weapons ))... but all the good things A17 brought should have been just added on top of A16 content. A17 is a nice game, but the problem is is it re-playable as A16 was? I would say definitely NOT.
    Last edited by Bhaaltazar; 02-08-2019 at 05:18 PM.

  10. #10
    Inventor PoppaTot's Avatar
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    Simple, I enjoy both. However, I stand by my statement that if you took only the POIs, vehicles, and graphics from A17 and put them into A16.4 the game would be PERFECT... for me.

  11. #11
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    New systems hurt the overall experience of the game. There is less rewarding moments, more annoyances, more simplistic and unfinished feel. Progression is not nearly as fun as before. Replayability took a hit. PvP and solo in MP games got pooped on. RWG is bad.

    I am not surprised the reviews are bad or that people stopped playing. Hoping for a miracle in 17.2 and beyond, to put the game back to level it was at before. (fun factor) I agree with poppaTot that some of the old systems played better, they made more sense too.

  12. #12
    Tracker OldManBrian's Avatar
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    I get that there's different strokes for different folks, but I still have trouble understanding how the devs don't\didn't see these issues and agree with what's been said here. I know you have to make a game for where the audience is, but I've never seen an early access have such a dramatic change in direction before after already selling so many copies.

    Obviously people like grindey games, and I can't believe Ark is as popular as it is considering the amount of grinding you have to do on default settings, but I wish this game kept the a16 direction it was already successful in. There was just nothing else like it.

    Don't get me wrong, it's still a *pretty good* game, which is why I'm sure the player base hasn't died after a17's release, but a16 wasn't just a *pretty good* game, it was an *absolutely fantastic freaking amazing* game. It feels like something really magical was lost.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoppaTot View Post
    Simple, I enjoy both. However, I stand by my statement that if you took only the POIs, vehicles, and graphics from A17 and put them into A16.4 the game would be PERFECT... for me.
    I have to agree for the most part here. While none of the big changes that most of the complaints about are game breakers for me, I'm having fun with the game despite the changes, not because of them. They just didn't add value, they added things to endure or work around.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBrian View Post
    I get that there's different strokes for different folks, but I still have trouble understanding how the devs don't\didn't see these issues and agree with what's been said here. I know you have to make a game for where the audience is, but I've never seen an early access have such a dramatic change in direction before after already selling so many copies.

    Obviously people like grindey games, and I can't believe Ark is as popular as it is considering the amount of grinding you have to do on default settings, but I wish this game kept the a16 direction it was already successful in. There was just nothing else like it.

    Don't get me wrong, it's still a *pretty good* game, which is why I'm sure the player base hasn't died after a17's release, but a16 wasn't just a *pretty good* game, it was an *absolutely fantastic freaking amazing* game. It feels like something really magical was lost.
    Well, I see problems with some of the changes, but a16 was a little too easy mode and lacked challenge late game. a17 kinda addressed this with the new poi's, quests, ai improvement. All of which I see as positive changes.

    But ya the systems overhauls took away some of the enjoy-ability for me. LBD and looting RNG were both things that gave me good feels all throughout my playthroughs. I think losing those is what has affected my enjoyment of the game the most.

    Also the changes to LCB's, map size, and RWG being bad atm didnt help much for me personally. (Its hard to get excited about a playthrough when you know there will be 100's of radio towers filling up your cities lol)

  15. #15
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    What "hurts" (if that is the right word) most about the perk system revamp is that I considered the perk system in A16 a work of genius - one of the best I've encountered in any game. Period. It maybe needed a tweak or two but that was it. It was very satisfying and felt rewarding. The new system just took all the adventure out of the game. Now if you want something, you don't go out and explore and loot, you gain XP by your preferred method and just buy it all. Ugh. No adventure, no variance. Same thing, every run, at the same level.

    I used to have so many quirky "campfire" stories about past (pre-A17) runs....like that run we never found the Shotgun book, ever, wow that was different and challenging. Gone now. One story now...And a bland one at that....I hit level x and naturally I could now make a y. So I spent the points and I made one, and now I never need to make another. The end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynard69 View Post
    Well, I see problems with some of the changes, but a16 was a little too easy mode and lacked challenge late game.
    Care to define A16's "late game"? Where was it I mean. When and why did you consider you had entered "late game"?

    I too still love the game and surely always will, but it used to be so much better, which is maddening. I am in complete agreement with PappaTot….had you taken A16 and added just the good things from A17 (POIs, vehicles, performance, AI, mods - complimenting gun parts not replacing them) you would have a truly sublime game.

    To quote the song 'Sit Down' by James:

    "Now I've swung back down again
    And it's worse than it was before.
    If I hadn't seen such riches
    I could live with being poor"
    Last edited by Ghostlight; 02-08-2019 at 08:28 PM.

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