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Thread: This games standing according to devs?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    What "hurts" (if that is the right word) most about the perk system revamp is that I considered the perk system in A16 a work of genius - one of the best I've encountered in any game. Period. It maybe needed a tweak or two but that was it. It was very satisfying and felt rewarding. The new system just took all the adventure out of the game. Now if you want something, you don't go out and explore and loot, you gain XP by your preferred method and just buy it all. Ugh. No adventure, no variance. Same thing, every run, at the same level.

    I used to have so many quirky "campfire" stories about past (pre-A17) runs....like that run we never found the Shotgun book, ever, wow that was different and challenging. Gone now. One story now...And a bland one at that....I hit level x and naturally I could now make a y. So I spent the points and I made one, and now I never need to make another. The end.



    Care to define A16's "late game"? Where was it I mean. When and why did you consider you had entered "late game"?

    I too still love the game and surely always will, but it used to be so much better, which is maddening. I am in complete agreement with PappaTot….had you taken A16 and added just the good things from A17 (POIs, vehicles, performance, AI, mods - complimenting gun parts not replacing them) you would have a truly sublime game.

    To quote the song 'Sit Down' by James:

    "Now I've swung back down again
    And it's worse than it was before.
    If I hadn't seen such riches
    I could live with being poor"
    A16 + good parts of A17 - game would be on par with the greatest out there. Now A17 kind of took a U turn if you wish and almost changed genre of the game. All the new things from A17 should be an upgrade to A16 - period. A16 was mid game - A17 should bring end game content, but instead A16 just got "stretched" with the grinding bits.
    I do like A17 but if it turns gold in this state, I may just play it few more times and than just move on and remember the good times

    p.s. it also says alot this thread has been moved from General discussion where everyone is into some basement part of the forum that nobody sees
    Last edited by Bhaaltazar; 1 Week Ago at 09:19 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowDog1942 View Post
    Id respond but im gonna go post stuff on forums of games that I dont like.
    Damn... why would you ever do that? o_o
    I generally don't care about those games and don't want them to improve, so I don't take the time to post long comments on their forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by apostrophe View Post
    Links, besides Steam reviews, would give more weight to your rant.

    Now that you made your catharsis, one constructive idea: Try a poll! Let's see "these numbers" upclose.
    I'm not sure what your argument is.
    Look at all the reviews (not only how many, but also what a lot of them write) since A17 launched...

    And the playernumbers are taken directly from:
    https://steamcharts.com/app/251570

    With July 2017 beeing the A16 release as a comparison (before that every alpha massively improved their playerbase).
    And I can't show you that it was on humblebundle, but if you go on the storepage you can see when the last... oh update: its on sale again ^_^
    Still the playernumbers can BARELY (if even) hold up with A16s comparable times.

    So I'm not really sure what other polls you want. Forums are only for the hardcore fans so polls here are biased. So the only things that are really a benchmark are reviews and playernumbers, related to how many sales they made.
    (if there are 1000 new players on average, but it sold 50000 copies, that means only 2% of players actually play the game actively (yes its a bit more complicated i know. but thats the gist of it) when compared to "only" 200 new players off of 500 new copies sold)

    And when I take into account:
    -game always grew every new alpha
    -steamreviews
    -playernumbers/sales(which must have been big because new alpha, featured, on sale, humblebundle)

    I can only conclude that A17 was simply one step forewards and two steps backwards and a lot of fans agree.


    And thanks everyone for joining in, but I didn't really want to start an argument if it is bad or not, just what the devs think about it now, as they "reflected" all incoming criticism in the first weeks with "wait and see because not enough date is in yet".

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    Care to define A16's "late game"? Where was it I mean. When and why did you consider you had entered "late game"?
    r"
    Uh, idk, I guess whenever you lvled up armor some and had steel or military there was no threat that could kill you so I guess sometime around then? Basically anywhere past 1/2 way to max gs there was no longer any threat. I didnt have a problem with anything else though really. I agree tho completely also, I even mention missing the RNG and LBD systems. Just the threat was missing, I did a playthrough on always run, insane, dead is dead to day 100+ with no problem, still never died just got bored with it. I play solo almost always
    Last edited by Maynard69; 1 Week Ago at 12:49 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maynard69 View Post
    Uh, idk, I guess whenever you lvled up armor some and had steel or military there was no threat that could kill you so I guess sometime around then? Basically anywhere past 1/2 way to max gs there was no longer any threat. I didnt have a problem with anything else though really. I agree tho completely also, I even mention missing the RNG and LBD systems. Just the threat was missing, I did a playthrough on always run, insane, dead is dead to day 100+ with no problem, still never died just got bored with it. I play solo almost always
    I feel like... if you had it on insane and got to gamestage 500+ (without underground building or prefab camping)
    it got pretty challenging.
    Like... yeah i have 300 rifle bullets... but at midnight ive run out because cops keep coming and my trench can only withstand so much!

    I always felt like the endgame was just upgrading your base and your equipment (talking about noncheese so no super deep spikepits or stiltbases). Like... I want another trap here... and another electric fence there... ouh some dart traps here would look awesome.
    Damn need more electricity, gonna rewire thise and make a switch there. Well I could paint this part like that... and oh that part could use steel/polished steel, well lets add a 2nd layer. I always wanted to have a magnum, even though i have a perfect sniper and ak already.
    Oh and lets build a ramp into the underground (so zombies can pathfind there) and build a fallout esque bunker...
    Damn that skill isn't maxxed, lets get that one up!

    Like... after 200hours I still never ran out of ideas of optimizing and still found a challenge to overcome.
    Now they have taken out pretty much all the endgame. Gunparts, skillprogression, basedesign (yes since they always go for the weakpoints and avoid traps, basedesign is valueless)...
    the only addition (which i grant them are nice, even though a bit stupid as they give dmg) are weaponmods!

    But everything else got removed or changed and replaced with tediousness or nonsensicle perks. :-/

  5. #20
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    For the record A16 endgame was gamestage 6000. I never got that far but I guesstimate that would have been about day 250. I took one A16 run to GS 4000, day 200 and the blood moon was amazing....I lost a fully upgraded Steel base in a epic fight that lasted till well into the next day (and I had level 600 of almost everything). A16 had a balance issue in that GS did not rise fast enough, so most people quit a run loooong before endgame, assuming they had "won".

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    For the record A16 endgame was gamestage 6000. I never got that far but I guesstimate that would have been about day 250. I took one A16 run to GS 4000, day 200 and the blood moon was amazing....I lost a fully upgraded Steel base in a epic fight that lasted till well into the next day (and I had level 600 of almost everything). A16 had a balance issue in that GS did not rise fast enough, so most people quit a run loooong before endgame, assuming they had "won".
    I did many playthroughs without deaths in a16 but I doubt I ever got to max gs. Even if I would have nothing would have changed though. Sledge. AK, maxed armor, military, beer/grain alc means

    Unlimited stamina
    No stuns
    No need for a base
    unlimited medkits (insta-heal)

    There was no way to die regardless, which is why I never made it that far before moving on and why I say it lacked threat. I never had a base destroyed though because I fought them out in the open on ground level.

  7. #22
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    That was my point. Take A16 to a high GS (4000 in my case) and you would have seen a whole different game. I *just* survived the horde at that GS and I had everything, plus a super-fortress solid base with many layers of automated defence, traps and turrets. On Insane ofc. It was a real eye-opener. No horde night in A17 has came even remotely close.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    That was my point. Take A16 to a high GS (4000 in my case) and you would have seen a whole different game. I *just* survived the horde at that GS and I had everything, plus a super-fortress solid base with many layers of automated defence, traps and turrets. On Insane ofc. It was a real eye-opener. No horde night in A17 has came even remotely close.
    Hmm, Idk. I dont see it as possible though. They cant catch you, you cant run out of breath, dodging spit is ez, they cant stun you. Doesnt matter how many there are or how tough they are, there was still no threat. I guess Idk really but I cant imagine I would have had a hard time surviving what you describe, with our without a base.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    And the playernumbers are taken directly from:
    https://steamcharts.com/app/251570

    With July 2017 beeing the A16 release as a comparison (before that every alpha massively improved their playerbase).
    And I can't show you that it was on humblebundle, but if you go on the storepage you can see when the last... oh update: its on sale again ^_^
    Still the playernumbers can BARELY (if even) hold up with A16s comparable times.

    So I'm not really sure what other polls you want. Forums are only for the hardcore fans so polls here are biased. So the only things that are really a benchmark are reviews and playernumbers, related to how many sales they made.
    (if there are 1000 new players on average, but it sold 50000 copies, that means only 2% of players actually play the game actively (yes its a bit more complicated i know. but thats the gist of it) when compared to "only" 200 new players off of 500 new copies sold)

    And when I take into account:
    -game always grew every new alpha
    -steamreviews
    -playernumbers/sales(which must have been big because new alpha, featured, on sale, humblebundle)

    I can only conclude that A17 was simply one step forewards and two steps backwards and a lot of fans agree.
    Really, I made you an unfair request. Besides Steam numbers, you could check Metacritic, but there are only two user reviews after A17 came out (and they're both negative). I looked over at Rockpapershotgun and Destructoid and there's no mention of 7DTD after A17 either. Aside from the players themselves, you can't figure out how well received or reviewed the game is. The game is in the oven for so much time that I can assume it's good as dead to the media.

    Looking at the link you gave: one can see that A16 (jun 2017) welcomed a big host of players, the most in all the game's history (32k); but 2 months later that number is almost cut in half (18k); from then on, population dwindled for a year until reaching 11k souls in september 2018. Now, in october 2018, one month prior to A17 and there's a high plateau: a steady 27/28k for 3 months straight. But alas, again months after the new version, population dropped, and is currently in reduction (17k).

    If anything, one can conclude that A17 positively blew new life into 7DTD, but, like it happened before, could not hold players for more than a few months. And I don't think this is because of the patch's quality but because of the age of the game. It is 6 years old. Newer options in the survival open world game market appear often, and with better graphics. I bet the current population is made of a hardcore base and newer players (like myself) who may or may not stick around.

    Heh I dare say, not even in launch we'll see the peak of june 2017 again. The game is old. Robust and fun, but old.

  10. #25
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    At least we know that not ALL the people who hate A17 left the forum...

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