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Thread: Why can zombies break through anything?

  1. #1

    Why can zombies break through anything?

    I realize that there is always going to be a tower defense component to the game, but why are there no endgame materials that are impervious to anything but acid cops? It's really annoying to go out there every morning to rebuild what was broken. I think it is a stupid pointless mechanic, and while I realize humans in desperation can leave claw marks in concrete, they can't do that without physical harm physical self-destruction in the process. Zombies don't regenerate tissue. My iron door or iron walls should not be broken through by a zombie.

    If I wanted to repeatedly rebuild my stuff, and have a life or death struggle all night every night I would stick with a sandstone structure!

    Some people want to have a safe fortress to go back to. I don't like the constant annoyance presented by zombies ability to break through any material like reinforced concrete, iron ect.

    For those complaining about the whole "but that takes away from 'realism' ", it's not like they would randomly despawn. I would still like to clear them out in the morning, I just find it to be a broken mechanic the way it is implemented currently.

    No I don't want that stupid bedrock exploit. I want an in-game addition to survival.
    Last edited by shadowsutekh; 06-22-2014 at 08:11 AM.

  2. #2
    This thread again? Ok, this has been discussed a ton. There isn't an endgame because the game is still in development. Which I'm sure you're aware of, so I'm not going to give you the "it's-an-alpha" explanation.

    Now onto why zombies can destroy your structures. It's all about balance. The point is to survive zombie attacks and rebuild. Trust me, if you're skilled enough, it doesn't really matter what you set your difficulty settings to, you can pretty much get to a point where playing the game becomes moot. It won't be long and you'll have everything you need. A great fortification, a large farm, and more guns than you know what to do with. The argument that "humans can't break it, zombies shouldn't be able too" is pretty much a joke at this point. If you didn't have to worry about zombies destroying your structure, there wouldn't be a point in playing once you get set up. No reason to leave, no reason to scavenge, no reason to continually build. Now ask yourself, would you really just want to sit in the middle of your base without any problems? Where would the endgame be then?

  3. #3
    At that point you just start over on a new map. You don't have to build a farm, just like you don't have to build a fortress zombies can't get into. I'm already at the point where I have more guns than I know what to do with and can take out the hordes easily. My issue lies entirely with having to rebuild my stuff. Nothing stops a player from using said suggested blocks/tweaks. The player should be able to set whatever balance they want to in order to make the game fun for them.

    Maybe I don't want to play it your way, and I shouldn't have to. Nor should your opinion on how you play the game sound so condescending as a response to my valid question. Just because this particular issue has been brought up a ton can serve as evidence that it is a very real issue to some players and shouldn't be discounted on the basis that others don't feel the same way. The easiest way to fix this would be to offer toggleable options in the game creation world over the zombies ability to break certain blocks. Therefore the players who feel the same as I do can play the way they want, and people like you can leave it the way it is now. It is an easy fix.

    I realize the game is still in development thank you very much.
    Last edited by shadowsutekh; 06-22-2014 at 08:22 AM.

  4. #4
    Hunter cronius77's Avatar
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    If you really want to have zombies not break anything just change zombie 1 and 2 and zombie dog hand to 1 damage under block damage in the models_5 resources file. You will need a editor and extractor which you can find in the mods section. I think if they really want to balance this game out they have to make a more realistic approach to zombies breaking down things. Ekk0 is right though it does get boring fast but even if you do have a base thats strong and do not edit anything in the files eventually the game does get boring and you either get creative or just start over. I think they really need to change how zombies attack objects by making them gang up to break something maybe similar to the walking dead or something. I think they just need to give you a lot more reasons to leave your base vs making you have to rebuild it each day something hears you or a zombie horde decides to spawn on you. Though its a sandbox which promotes creativity giving you more rewarding reasons to leave your safe zone is much more appealing and gives you a much better sense of accomplishment.

  5. #5
    I realize that there is always going to be a tower defense component to the game, but why are there no endgame materials that are impervious to anything but acid cops?
    Because this is a game at ALPHA phase.

    But you there are some defence method's that made your base 99% zombie/horde safe that don't require to rebuild the defence each morning. You just need to find it out or read the forum more.
    Hint: no need to build a defensive structure is the key.

  6. #6
    Basic perimeters work great, although most easily built perimeters are going to be really close to your safehouse.

    There are a few things that can be done:

    First day/night: roam, loot, focus on wood, tools, metal, and metal pipe. Ignore everything that has to do with guns, gundpowder, paper, etc until you actually have a gun. You can come back for it later. At night, stay stealthed and keep moving. Don't approach zombies, focus more on natural pickups.

    Basic Fortification: Start with a simple shack. Don't build big to start. It must be fully enclosed, and have a fire pit, forge, chest, and sleeping bag. Alternatively, clear out a POI building, and fortify the first floor. At night, stay stealthed and afk through the night. Nothing should knock. Do NOT handle raw meat at night, and stay away from windows.

    Expansion: Stockpile, hoard, and hoard more. If you're custom building in the wilderness, you are going to need TONS of construction material. 5-10 stacks of core materials will keep you busy for a long time. If you have taken over a POI, begin to extend things like perimeter fences and such so that hordes don't get 'stuck' and attempt to aggressively burrow.

    Advanced Fortification: For surface buildings, cash in on your cache of building materials and lay out a foundation/floor. Don't dig (unless you're planning on a basement). You want a floor at anklebiter level to slow down dogs and crawlers if the worst happens. Once you have this, aim for a perimeter 20+ blocks away from every wall and door. This is the general maximum that sound will propogate (and thus draw attention). Build 3 blocks high, with barbed wire around the upper edge to halt crawlers. No holes, use doors or ladders to cross the wall. Do NOT build at night. Hide or roam.

  7. #7
    Anyone see the Zombie Special episode of Mythbusters? I think the Devs should implement a damage multiplier to zombies in groups. The more there are stacked up again your walls/doors, the more damage they should do as a whole unit (I.e. One zombie does slight damage over time, a group of ten does significantly more, and a horde can break through your defenses in minutes, etc). Makes sense to me. Just a thought.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowsutekh View Post
    I realize the game is still in development thank you very much.
    Kind of why I chose to for-go the explanation of an Alpha.

    The only thing I can see in my reply that may have seemed condescending is calling the "zombies shouldn't be able to destroy structures" argument. And if that's how you took it I'm sorry. However, I would definitely not say that it's an "issue". It's a gameplay element that a very small minority of players don't like. Most people seem to understand the need for zombies damaging blocks. There is a very small minority of players that think that zombies shouldn't. The argument always seems to be the realism standpoint, "Humans can't do it, zombies shouldn't be able to." Well, humans also shouldn't be able to carry around stacks of dirt in 1 meter blocks that weigh 1,600 kgs (3200+ lbs) in their back packs.

    You are exactly right about being able to play the game how you like. I never said you couldn't or shouldn't. But, there's still going to be the sole purpose of surviving the Zombie hordes that attack your base. That will never change. Zombies need to be able to destroy bases. The way I see it, they need to be able to destroy any and all blocks. I think it needs to be rebalanced on some blocks but all blocks should be destroyable. If they're going to make it so that zombies can't destroy certain blocks, then they need to make it to where you can't erect a house or even just a small shelter of said materials in a matter of in-game hours. As a matter of fact, it should take you WEEKS to complete just a basic home. Then when someone decides to make a concrete base by themselves, it should take them years.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowsutekh View Post
    I realize that there is always going to be a tower defense component to the game, but why are there no endgame materials that are impervious to anything but acid cops? It's really annoying to go out there every morning to rebuild what was broken. I think it is a stupid pointless mechanic, and while I realize humans in desperation can leave claw marks in concrete, they can't do that without physical harm physical self-destruction in the process. Zombies don't regenerate tissue. My iron door or iron walls should not be broken through by a zombie.

    If I wanted to repeatedly rebuild my stuff, and have a life or death struggle all night every night I would stick with a sandstone structure!

    Some people want to have a safe fortress to go back to. I don't like the constant annoyance presented by zombies ability to break through any material like reinforced concrete, iron ect.

    For those complaining about the whole "but that takes away from 'realism' ", it's not like they would randomly despawn. I would still like to clear them out in the morning, I just find it to be a broken mechanic the way it is implemented currently.

    No I don't want that stupid bedrock exploit. I want an in-game addition to survival.

    My suggestion, if you mod at all. go into models_2 and find the pinetips, then boost the damage. Just remember you're breaking a game mechanic. Or in Models_5, you can adjust zombiehands damage. Then all you need is walls to keep them out, and balls to clear them out.

    Personally, I like an aesthetic base. And you can't really have that when bunkering for zed attacks.

    "For those complaining about the whole "but that takes away from 'realism' ", it's not like they would randomly despawn. I would still like to clear them out in the morning, I just find it to be a broken mechanic the way it is implemented currently."

    Truth there. It isn't like you wouldn't have to face them eventually.

  10. #10
    This argument has valid points on both sides - zombies should not be able to tear through concrete fast in smaller numbers. When a mass of bodies press against a structure, you can have anything from windows/doors pulled out of hinges, iron bars bent, brick walls break-ins and so on. Basically, the only structure you can not damage with your hands is welded/cast iron cage since zombies will not attack weak points and will not try to bend or use tools to cut the metal. So if you're ok with living in a giant cage, you should be perfectly safe.

    On the other hand, right now it's incredibly easy to build overground and underground as well. Imagine (just for the sake of reality, I know we can't have 100% real game here) how long would it take to build a simple cottage out of wood and how long would it take to cast the rebar frames - it would take months if you knew how to do it in the first place. Digging/mining follows the same pattern. If I ever were in a zombie apocalypse, I would never try to burrow into stone - I would occupy a well-built house or some such instead because I would never be able to burrow fast enough and deep enough in my whole life.

    There is probably no correct and absolute solution to this - one "good enough" could be to implement aforementioned group damage - zombies stop when they encounter an obstacle. When they don't sense anything behind that, they will change direction to go around it (and then either resume their previous direction or not) or, when they sense something behind that, start piling there and claw at the obstacle, the front line doing their damage and lines further away increasing the front line damage (think armor vs. low damage = no damage even when I attack, then with increased damage I finally start dealing damage) while damaging the front line of zombies (crushing them against the wall maybe). This way, a large herd of zombies could thin itself against a concrete wall and eventually breach it in the end.

  11. #11
    My personal two cents is I don’t care for them breaking through everything as easy as they do.

    With that aside them breaking through materials like concrete I can see happening. With them being zombie that means they’re using their full physical power without any mental safety limits, so they could bust stone but it would take a long time and it would cause great damage to the zombie as well. Also with the zombies in the game we’ve have a few that change the limits on the normal human body, mainly looking at the cop zombie as the main example of this. There is no telling what other changes have occurred to the body once they’ve become zombies.

    I still think they should be able to break most blocks but should suffer damage from doing so on some blocks like cobblestone, concrete, and anything metal or with metal reinforcements. To make it easier I think they should just have the zombie be killed after it certain point, over it just loosing use of a limb. I don’t think the game needs a bunch of zombies with no arms or legs using their chins to get around, that would be just sad to watch.

  12. #12
    I'm fairly new to 7 Days to Die, only 22 hours in so far, but I've been a big fan of the zombie genre in books and movies for years. From my perspective, the "zombies can take apart concrete with their bare hands" thing is a reasonable game mechanic because trying to program in the TRUE relentlessness of zombies would be overwhelming.

    As a simple example from a book I read in the past year, the small walled community was fairly safe inside their concrete and stone walls. They only were at risk when they went out looking for supplies. The problem began when a large mass of zombies came at one wall. As the mob grew, the front line of zombies were crushed by those pushing from behind. This happened over and over. You might think that's a good thing, until you realize that the growing pile of dead zombies was allowing their fellows to be closer and closer to the top of the wall. Finally, they simply poured over because there was just no stopping thousands of zombies who don't care about anything but getting closer to the walking meat.

    It's a compromise between player and developer, as many games are. Our computers can't really handle thousands of zombies pushing up against a wall until they get over it or push it down by sheer mass, so instead the game zombies tear it down.

    That said, I am not claiming that the balance level is perfect right now. From what I've read on the forum, many people think it needs balancing ... or perhaps isn't too bad, but please balance the massive hordes with player GPS. However it works now, the developers seem to be active on improving this game, so I expect things will continue to tweak here and tweak there as they get it as close to possible to perfect.

    For those for whom the developer idea of "perfect" isn't a good match, there's mods or modding the files yourself; something which really makes this a better sandbox because it can be a personalized sandbox.

    Anyway, just the two cents of a newbie. Now, back to playing so I can get better at not dying.

  13. #13
    Survivor Incarnatus's Avatar
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    Check this post out: http://7daystodie.com/forums/showthr...ll=1#post96551

    Quote madmole from above post: "Dead zeds will leave a gore block behind, creating also a huge pile of decaying corspes which other zeds can use as stairs. So the typical battle where they die on your spikes and you sit on your wall ledge gunning them down tactic will only last a while."

  14. #14
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    I think his original point was: Super rare material (like iron) used in huge quantities to build a super strong block (like iron wall) and that super strong block uses so much iron that you have to be playing for a long time to build a wall out of it. Now why not make that super strong block impervious to zombies? It takes a ton of time and effort to make ONE block I don't think it breaks the game at all, wood and stone/concrete bases will still be destructible.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Antix View Post
    I think his original point was: Super rare material (like iron) used in huge quantities to build a super strong block (like iron wall) and that super strong block uses so much iron that you have to be playing for a long time to build a wall out of it. Now why not make that super strong block impervious to zombies? It takes a ton of time and effort to make ONE block I don't think it breaks the game at all, wood and stone/concrete bases will still be destructible.
    In simpler terms yeah I guess that is what I'm trying to say.

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