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Thread: Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

  1. #50386
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greymantle View Post
    Have to agree with this not sure why were on version 17 of this game and RWG is still broken. All the minor bugs are taking a toll too on my server people are giving up.
    A little optimism would be nice. The reason for all the bugs is that prior to 17 RWG had its own way of generating which caused much more cpu use and often made adding standard features impossible. We changed it so that it generates a height map, biome map, etc so in game (once generated) it is identical to how we run Navezgane. This allowed us to do the quests (how can you do a quest if the town isn't even there and the game doesn't even know?) Anyhow long story short Robert also did all the new attribute/buff/skill code and didn't have enough time to get RWG bug free. So now the game code is *mostly* stable so he's preparing RWG to be gold quality. This might explain some random bow bugs not being fixed.

    The list goes on and on, but we want to use splat maps too, another thing impossible with the old RWG so terrain will look 1000x better in A18 and RWG will be able to have it too now that we have a unified way of rendering worlds.

  2. #50387
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    ^this.

    Calm the frack down, people.

  3. #50388
    Colony Founder SnowDog1942's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    ^this.

    Calm the frack down, people.
    Suck up


  4. #50389
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaVegaNL View Post
    If the size of the map gets reduced by ~20-25%, that's rather a big deal. It's not like the water starts where the radiation zone started in the past.
    We watched a server that had a lot of players and it sent all their map data and combined it. After a month like 20% of the actual map was uncovered. I'm pretty sure we will support 16k maps again soon enough but my point is people think they need all this space, yet 50 players only uncovered 20% of the actual map after a month of play in a16.

  5. #50390
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaxTeller718 View Post
    So what was wrong with Radiation? The issue people had was not the radiation but that you removed any visual cues and people could just walk right into it.

    I've given this thing several Experimentals now and I feel I have a pretty good handle on how this is all shaking out. I TRIED to give this Alpha the benefit of the doubt but there really is nothing going on here to give me faith that any of this will equal anything better than 16 was.

    I'm going to talk as a modder now. Because either the answer around here is mod it, or the byline is how modder friendly this Alpha is. That isnt true. It is NOT as modder friendly as you think. You have taken so many things away from us that its becoming a battle and struggle to remain creative while working around these limitations.

    I go to Discords, and other avenues of discussion and all I read is people TRYING to overcome your limitations. They arent creating. They are brainstorming. Brainstorming how to overcome the limitations that you put in their way, from RWG to the UI. Sure people are putting out some great Unity mods, and dll mods from the same group of people that know how to do dll modding in the first place.

    Im talking about real honest to God benefits to modders. Where are they? Your cvars that break servers and require hacks to fix? Your buffs? Your EXTREMELY limited progression system?

    The radiation zone/biome was used by several modders as an area of difficulty. Starvation, Darkness Falls etc ALL used them, myself included. Chalk that up as ANOTHER thing you guys yanked instead of expanding upon. What would you like ius to create now? Boats? So we can go around the edges of the map and explore...nothing? You may as well remove the radiation protection from hazmats if you have not already. Another system you added and then dropped to fit into a tidy box and remove MORE originality from a once great game. Another avenue that modders use to create something interesting gone. Just another day at the office right?

    Sorry if I sound bitter. I AM. I cherished and adored this game. I swore allegiance to the Pimps. And in the end all Im feeling like is an afterthought as a customer, a fan, a player and a modder. Maybe that means its time to move on? I dont want to but its getting difficult to remain enthusiastic.

    If you truly meant that modding was going to be more open to the public to mean "learn C# or you will be left behind" maybe you should have been more specific. I'm down with that. But when you have to hack into your dlls to do simple things like add back in quality and degradation, or even allow skill points to scale to level, you're sending a VERY different message to your players.

    And what of RWG? HOPEFULLY it gets better. It just got WORSE. WAY less hubs on the map, smaller map even though you increased the size. Water EVERYWHERE. It feels like we are in year 2 of EA again. You are supposed to move forward not backward. And this whole thing feels like its going in a negative direction.

    Bring on the hate I dont care. There are things I do like about 17, things i had to add back in myself or tweak to truly enjoy them. Its not the ctual water that is triggering. Its this new motto of "yank it out" that's getting all too familiar here.
    This should have been a wall of text, then I wouldn't have read it. I still didn't get anything out of it. If your going to complain, at least talk about your beefs, why they are bad and what your solution would be. This game is huge and I don't have a grasp on every single change.

  6. #50391
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    A little optimism would be nice. The reason for all the bugs is that prior to 17 RWG had its own way of generating which caused much more cpu use and often made adding standard features impossible. We changed it so that it generates a height map, biome map, etc so in game (once generated) it is identical to how we run Navezgane. This allowed us to do the quests (how can you do a quest if the town isn't even there and the game doesn't even know?) Anyhow long story short Robert also did all the new attribute/buff/skill code and didn't have enough time to get RWG bug free. So now the game code is *mostly* stable so he's preparing RWG to be gold quality. This might explain some random bow bugs not being fixed.

    The list goes on and on, but we want to use splat maps too, another thing impossible with the old RWG so terrain will look 1000x better in A18 and RWG will be able to have it too now that we have a unified way of rendering worlds.
    Will future A17 updates likely be tweaks and we should expect another significant Alpha (18) update to implement any remaining big changes (like RWG)?

  7. #50392
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    I don't get why people aren't lining up to take advantage of the DTM map system.

    ...it's glorious.

  8. #50393
    Reconstructionist Hek Harris's Avatar
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    Madmole is back and he's got a brand new sawed-off shotgun

  9. #50394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    I don't get why people aren't lining up to take advantage of the DTM map system.

    ...it's glorious.
    I agree! Yes there are still some problems but I like that I do not run into radiation zones. I think some people will complain no matter what the game developers do...............

  10. #50395
    Fun Pimps Staff Gazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    I don't get why people aren't lining up to take advantage of the DTM map system.
    ...it's glorious.
    It's mind-boggling. Don't they see what that MEANS?

    Eh, whatevs.

  11. #50396
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kattla View Post
    Someone donate a helium balloon to MM, so trader jen can get a better voice.
    Its on the list.

  12. #50397
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    We watched a server that had a lot of players and it sent all their map data and combined it. After a month like 20% of the actual map was uncovered. I'm pretty sure we will support 16k maps again soon enough but my point is people think they need all this space, yet 50 players only uncovered 20% of the actual map after a month of play in a16.
    Thats weird, Ive been on 20k map servers where I get on a bike and travel to every city on the map and every single city is looted.

    Alot of people dont travel, but those of that love to explore really miss the larger sizes. I mean all these new vehicles need a big pen to roam in.

  13. #50398
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaVegaNL View Post
    Yeah I'm feeling the same thing, Jax. Radiation is removed, so that their potential future biome doesn't need to be implemented.
    What on earth are you guys talking about? Radition biome isn't removed. Whatever bits of random gen escaped into 17.2 does not represent what we're working on.

  14. #50399
    Inventor PoppaTot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    What on earth are you guys talking about? Radition biome isn't removed. Whatever bits of random gen escaped into 17.2 does not represent what we're working on.
    Will the bits of RWG that are being worked on be available in A17x? Just curious, no sarcasm intended. The reason I ask is because I'm on my 4th RWG creation this morning for a new YT series and haven't found a map that is not 70% water. I literally start spawned in the middle of a giant lake, I went into flight mode and could not even find land?

  15. #50400
    Colony Founder The Gronk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    We watched a server that had a lot of players and it sent all their map data and combined it. After a month like 20% of the actual map was uncovered. I'm pretty sure we will support 16k maps again soon enough but my point is people think they need all this space, yet 50 players only uncovered 20% of the actual map after a month of play in a16.
    There's a tendency for MP groups to stick close to each other, this isn't an issue in SP but there is a tendency to stick to a single area once you have found a good place to set up if you're on your own.

    I play SP and I find an 8k map to be far too small. Hell, I generated a 16k map for 17.2 and that felt too small. I wandered naturally to find a good spot as I usually do and ended up in the same place twice with two consecutive games.

    It's not the square footage of explored areas that's important, it's the ability to walk for days in a straight line without being constrained by an artificial barrier.

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