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Clare
08-05-2016, 06:43 PM
Hi all,

Great news from the teams! Patch 2 is almost ready. We are currently waiting on approval and all going to plan it will be released next week along with notes on what is contained in the patch.
Stay Tuned - As soon as it goes live it will be announced here!

Clare

DasGeneral
08-05-2016, 06:53 PM
Great News!! Thanks

TheRalle_
08-05-2016, 06:58 PM
Hell yeah love you clare :D lets rock the Future ^^

Clare
08-05-2016, 07:03 PM
Hell yeah love you clare :D lets rock the Future ^^

I would prefer Iron or Steel, but sure whatever we can scavenge lol

mjm800
08-05-2016, 07:09 PM
Great news! Do patches, patch over saved games or would I need to start a new game to experience the patch improvements.

Clare
08-05-2016, 07:17 PM
Great news! Do patches, patch over saved games or would I need to start a new game to experience the patch improvements.

I don't believe you'll need to start a new game, it should just fix around.

Deadeyes7723
08-05-2016, 07:19 PM
Great news, hopefully it fixes the save corruption and the building environment bug. Fingers crossed.

nescaf3
08-05-2016, 07:22 PM
Will this patch also contain the fix for the stuttering issue or will that come in a later patch?

Clare
08-05-2016, 07:31 PM
I haven't see the patch notes yet, so I can't confirm the contents.

With the stuttering issue it depends on when it was actually found, again, can't confirm at what point that'll be patched in.

Kakarott06
08-05-2016, 07:46 PM
Great news
Thanks for all the hard work guys
Loving the game

Absolute Chaos
08-05-2016, 08:49 PM
Great! Do you know when the patch sould come out like about a week or so?

Clare
08-05-2016, 08:55 PM
Great! Do you know when the patch sould come out like about a week or so?

If everything runs smoothly you'll see it next week =)

MrSmoke
08-05-2016, 08:58 PM
Great! Do you know when the patch sould come out like about a week or so?

PSN and XBL like to do their updates on Tuesdays, so that would be my guess.

Taylornater
08-05-2016, 09:04 PM
Good things do come to those who wait.

Strokey3000
08-05-2016, 09:19 PM
This is just temporary fix until the patch comes out...but you can save the game on a USB flash drive to avoid the dreaded game corrupted and deleted bug....hope this is helpful

Strokey3000
08-05-2016, 09:33 PM
If you need complete explanation on how to save your game on USB ... Go to youtube an search ... Backing up and Restoring PS4 Game saves...make sure you save your world and settings or it won't work

DrDaan
08-05-2016, 11:05 PM
Yay! Thanks Claire!! So many questions but I'll wait for patch notes.

LwstnME
08-05-2016, 11:19 PM
Awesome. Thanks for update. Looking forward to this patch and future ones.

xiiMaRcLeoN
08-06-2016, 12:10 AM
Nice

The Overcomer
08-06-2016, 01:31 AM
Please keep your posts constructive. You'll get the patch notes with everyone else when it is available.

Thank You -Malthis

Idiot
08-06-2016, 01:40 AM
The new POIs aren't even on pc yet an the pimps told us that pc will get the new content first then when there stable console will get them. if tell tell will let us, if not tell tell might sell it in a dlc format but the pimps are pushing for them not to do it that way. I for one am happy with the content we have the fact they are making it run smoother an possibly look better with better lighting then it is only a good thing. We just have to wait an see what happens down the road but right now I feel I have gotten more then my money's worth.

MrSmoke
08-06-2016, 02:33 AM
Please keep your posts constructive. You'll get the patch notes with everyone else when it is available.

Thank You -Malthis

I guess you would prefer the game to stay in its current state, ruining the experience for some and driving them away?

I would much rather be happy (excited, if you will) hearing that a patch is expected next week, and future content (free, or not) is planned for us. Part of the excitement is the unkown. Like a child at Christmas.

We may not know exactly what is in the patch, but its sure to improve the experience for players which is great.

Dont be so negative. It can cause stress which can lead to more serious health issues.

Ares GodOWar
08-06-2016, 03:02 AM
Game is going to be Awesome

Reaper86
08-06-2016, 04:02 AM
Would be nice to have traders an new zombies

BigSmokey
08-06-2016, 04:32 AM
This is just temporary fix until the patch comes out...but you can save the game on a USB flash drive to avoid the dreaded game corrupted and deleted bug....hope this is helpful

Alternatively backup to cloud services, I have suggested this on other threads as well. I know PS4 has backup to cloud feature so i would assume xbox does too. Either way taking a backup and restoring after a world is corrupted saves on a lot of rage ;)

DestroyWayne
08-06-2016, 06:09 AM
Thanks for the update! Looking foreward to it!

skippy0330
08-06-2016, 06:42 AM
Alternatively backup to cloud services, I have suggested this on other threads as well. I know PS4 has backup to cloud feature so i would assume xbox does too. Either way taking a backup and restoring after a world is corrupted saves on a lot of rage ;)

Hey for my ps4 friends, here is a video of mine to show how to back up to usb or cloud on ps4, i hope this helps out a few of ya :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chGmiXeNtvc

FixedCandy
08-06-2016, 07:21 AM
To be honest I would be very happy to pay for any DLC for this game. The stuttering issue is the only reason why I have not been playing as much as of late, but I feel they will resolve this soon. I should note I am on Xbox 1 but I am sure everyone else is having the same issue I am atm.

bonycraft
08-06-2016, 11:33 AM
Good news!, looking forward to seeing the patch notes and seeing what's new/changed.

Stufish
08-06-2016, 02:54 PM
Seems like since the last update (4. August, Switzerland) there are more crashes. Even in singelplayer. Thus the structural integrety seems a bit off. Dug a block of dirt touching my house, which brought the whole thing to collaps.

Roland
08-06-2016, 03:13 PM
Seems like since the last update (4. August, Switzerland) there are more crashes. Even in singelplayer. Thus the structural integrety seems a bit off. Dug a block of dirt touching my house, which brought the whole thing to collaps.

Load-bearing dirt...lol

Bigwilly2587
08-06-2016, 03:31 PM
Any talk about updating it to let more players in the multiplayer servers on playstation 4...4 max just is not enough...

Leafsomniac
08-06-2016, 04:32 PM
Any talk about updating it to let more players in the multiplayer servers on playstation 4...4 max just is not enough...

This willy speaks the truth

Skittz
08-06-2016, 05:01 PM
I would like to see dedicated servers???

P00RKN0W
08-06-2016, 07:02 PM
Perfect scenario for me would just be to have the patch finally make the game run smooth. Imo everything else is secondary, improving the lighting kind of worries me because I feel like it's just another thing to stress the engine. Also, being able to directly communicate with iron galaxy would be great, as opposed to this whole unnecessary middle-man that is this section of the forums. I went to the iron galaxy twitter and they just kind of ignore anyone asking questions about 7DTD, which worries me a bit.. but then again I do worry very easily, here's to hoping for a steady FPS of at least 30 after the patch.
I'll also add that I would be more than happy to actually pay for feature DLC, even though word on the street is TFP don't want that.

killedman2
08-06-2016, 09:04 PM
Remember guys, this isn't A15.

The Overcomer
08-07-2016, 05:43 AM
Ill so be swapping to pc and dumping console version if this doesnt have the things from Joels latest video of poi and terrain, traders etc .... his vid is amazing

naps420
08-07-2016, 11:32 AM
Ill so be swapping to pc and dumping console version if this doesnt have the things from Joels latest video of poi and terrain, traders etc .... his vid is amazing

This is just going to be a patch to fix things that are not working or glitched in the game. This is not an update or DLC. Also, the stuff in that video is showing off the PC's Alpha 15 build. It will come out to PC first, then it will be up to Telltale how they want to distribute it (or if even at all). This content is not even out on the PC as of yet. They could very well put it out as a paid DLC. Though TFP are trying to talk Telltale into releasing it for free, it's not their call with Telltale being the console's publisher and they are the ones who deal with any new content the consoles get.

Gareee
08-07-2016, 02:59 PM
We are literally getting hourly (or less) crashes playing local split screen.. riding a motorbike is a crapshoot, because 50% of the time on a crash its lost to one or both of us, and of course all the contents it contains as well. Its so maddening we are considering asking for a refund. At this point I'd say conservatively we've reported no less than 50 crash reports.

Yeah there are feature enhancements we'd like to see, and some of the a15 stuff looks like it really enhances the game (like the draw distance changes) but if the game has lousy and inconsistent framerates like it has now, and crashes all the time, I know one of us will get fed up with it at some point.

I think we've probably lost 30 motorscooters by now, and with large random maps, you really need them. And we've both also died trying to make it back at night on foot since we lost the scooter in one of the hourly crashes.

We even bought a second copy of the game for a friend, because as the both read it *looked* like you could play split screen local and add online friends.. but thats not the case at all... its either or.

This is easily one of the most fun/most aggravating game purchases we've made on the PS4.

BBallaman369
08-07-2016, 11:24 PM
We are literally getting hourly (or less) crashes playing local split screen.. riding a motorbike is a crapshoot, because 50% of the time on a crash its lost to one or both of us, and of course all the contents it contains as well. Its so maddening we are considering asking for a refund. At this point I'd say conservatively we've reported no less than 50 crash reports.

Yeah there are feature enhancements we'd like to see, and some of the a15 stuff looks like it really enhances the game (like the draw distance changes) but if the game has lousy and inconsistent framerates like it has now, and crashes all the time, I know one of us will get fed up with it at some point.

I think we've probably lost 30 motorscooters by now, and with large random maps, you really need them. And we've both also died trying to make it back at night on foot since we lost the scooter in one of the hourly crashes.

We even bought a second copy of the game for a friend, because as the both read it *looked* like you could play split screen local and add online friends.. but thats not the case at all... its either or.

This is easily one of the most fun/most aggravating game purchases we've made on the PS4.

I don't even try to build a minibike anymore. I lose every single one and so do my buddies. If I play with one other person the game runs okay, but the second I have 2 we crash all the time. It's super frustrating. Hopefully the patch will address these things. I'm trying to be optimistic.

STUJO JUNKIE
08-08-2016, 01:59 PM
I just want my world back, I hope to god that this patch fixes the building enviroment bug. If not its over for me. My buddies already jumped ship. I just want to play but refuse to start over again.

Platypusmuerte
08-08-2016, 02:51 PM
I just want my world back, I hope to god that this patch fixes the building enviroment bug. If not its over for me. My buddies already jumped ship. I just want to play but refuse to start over again.

I think I would be OK if the patch fixed future building environment crashes/world corruptions but didn't make currently corrupted saves playable again. Just knowing that it won't happen again would be a massive step for me.

Icing on the cake would be that it fixes existing worlds, but I think thats more in the nice-to-have column for me. I just want to be able to move forward.

Nomaj
08-08-2016, 05:05 PM
Will patch #2 be released today or later this week?

STUJO JUNKIE
08-08-2016, 05:27 PM
I think I would be OK if the patch fixed future building environment crashes/world corruptions but didn't make currently corrupted saves playable again. Just knowing that it won't happen again would be a massive step for me.

Icing on the cake would be that it fixes existing worlds, but I think thats more in the nice-to-have column for me. I just want to be able to move forward.

Claire said not to delete our worlds because they are trying to fix the issue.....we will see

Platypusmuerte
08-08-2016, 06:42 PM
Will patch #2 be released today or later this week?

My money is on Tuesday, and in the evening at that I imagine. Only time will tell though.

Migs
08-08-2016, 07:39 PM
Hi all,

Great news from the teams! Patch 2 is almost ready. We are currently waiting on approval and all going to plan it will be released next week along with notes on what is contained in the patch.
Stay Tuned - As soon as it goes live it will be announced here!

Clare
Im woundering if we will be getting alot of cool things that pc will be getting

The Overcomer
08-08-2016, 08:04 PM
Im woundering if we will be getting alot of cool things that pc will be getting

Apparently not yet, even if at all. . It is simply a patch to fix bugs and MAY included distant terrain and new lighting effects. Appart from that there is talk of Tell Tales charging for DLC for the extra features and The Fun Pimps trying to convince Tell Tale to not charge. Even though you may have already spent $50 ish bucks on the console version. Personal advise here, ditch the console version and get the PC version as the videos Mad Mole has done on new POIs, Zombies etc is outstanding. Consolde version is not even close to it. Im switchigas soon as Alpha 15 is released and wont go back. Only downside is no controller support for PC I believe.

BBallaman369
08-08-2016, 08:21 PM
Im woundering if we will be getting alot of cool things that pc will be getting

Hopefully in the future we will. For this patch all I want is..

-To not have the game crash constantly with 2+ people playing
-Not lose minibikes if the game does crash
-Not miss out on bloodmoon hordes if the game does crash.

There's probably more, but I can't remember right now.

Eddyjr2008
08-08-2016, 09:32 PM
Saaaweeet. I have been busting at the seams for this update. I know its jus a bug fix update but I figure once all the bugs are takin care of we might get some new content. I know it's been said that it was gonna be seen how well the console version did b4 deciding if new content was coming to console. I reallllly reallllly hope that it's done well enough for them to be able to release new content. Also, I understand that it may be cosmetic stuff for awhile like character skins, but I hope in the near future that it'll be new game features of any kind. New POI's, Zombes, weapons, idc. These are my all time fav genre of games and this has the potential to be great. I know I may recieve a lot of flak for saying this because of some bugs in the game but this is pretty much my fav game. TFP, I beg you, bring new content in the future, like yesterday. Hahahaha jk jk. Thanks for all your hard work. Congrats on a great game

Paska boy
08-08-2016, 09:37 PM
Hi all,

Great news from the teams! Patch 2 is almost ready. We are currently waiting on approval and all going to plan it will be released next week along with notes on what is contained in the patch.
Stay Tuned - As soon as it goes live it will be announced here!

Clare

So when m i going to be able to continue a game. Because i have started 5 now and get kicked out and cant load it again. I know 40$ isnt alot but if u cant play your loaded games its just a paper weight?

DSAxMAVERICK
08-08-2016, 10:07 PM
Tomorrow publish the patch? . Said in late july or early August. A little more than two months without repairing the game and there is no official foroums suport talltale chi_t
.

madmole
08-09-2016, 12:33 AM
Apparently not yet, even if at all. . It is simply a patch to fix bugs and MAY included distant terrain and new lighting effects. Appart from that there is talk of Tell Tales charging for DLC for the extra features and The Fun Pimps trying to convince Tell Tale to not charge. Even though you may have already spent $50 ish bucks on the console version. Personal advise here, ditch the console version and get the PC version as the videos Mad Mole has done on new POIs, Zombies etc is outstanding. Consolde version is not even close to it. Im switchigas soon as Alpha 15 is released and wont go back. Only downside is no controller support for PC I believe.
PC A15 has console's controller support, but I can assure you that some new features are coming to console.

madmole
08-09-2016, 12:33 AM
Tomorrow publish the patch? . Said in late july or early August. A little more than two months without repairing the game and there is no official foroums suport talltale chi_t
.

It was supposed to be Friday, then Today... I'm not sure what the delay is.

Ares GodOWar
08-09-2016, 01:20 AM
Apparently not yet, even if at all. . It is simply a patch to fix bugs and MAY included distant terrain and new lighting effects. Appart from that there is talk of Tell Tales charging for DLC for the extra features and The Fun Pimps trying to convince Tell Tale to not charge. Even though you may have already spent $50 ish bucks on the console version. Personal advise here, ditch the console version and get the PC version as the videos Mad Mole has done on new POIs, Zombies etc is outstanding. Consolde version is not even close to it. Im switchigas soon as Alpha 15 is released and wont go back. Only downside is no controller support for PC I believe.

One of the streamers I watch uses a steam controller he loves it says its way better than a normal PS4 controller

Skittz
08-09-2016, 02:09 AM
It was supposed to be Friday, then Today... I'm not sure what the delay is.

Sony usually releases updates on Tuesdays.
I'm not saying it will be Tuesday but that could be one of the reasons.

aceguy7
08-09-2016, 04:20 AM
I Just hope console version can at least get distant terrain/new rwg, new zombies/sleepers/ boss variety, Cat walks /building on trees, new buildings to loot, fishing/raft, new clothes/weapons, and some new z traps. Also dead is dead mode and horde mode would be a nice touch... I can live without the traders and bandits at least on the console version...I do have the pc version as well but would still be nice to see some of those things make it to console.

Umbario
08-09-2016, 05:41 AM
I Just hope console version can at least get distant terrain/new rwg, new zombies/sleepers/ boss variety, Cat walks /building on trees, new buildings to loot, fishing/raft, new clothes/weapons, and some new z traps. Also dead is dead mode and horde mode would be a nice touch... I can live without the traders and bandits at least on the console version...I do have the pc version as well but would still be nice to see some of those things make it to console.

I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Ev.
08-09-2016, 08:13 AM
I can assure you that some new features are coming to console.
That's great to hear! Loving the game a lot, have been playing it most days since PS4 release until lately just because I figure it'd be best to start a new world once the patch is out.

Don't suppose you could enlighten us as to whether the patch fixes the POI not spawning bug? Honestly thats the main thing for me. The crashes and vanishing bikes are annoying and all but if random gen was working with proper POI spawns they'd be far more fun to explore, so restarting over all the time wouldn't be anywhere near as bad for us. :)

Fantastic game though, thank you for sharing your vision and work with the gaming community and allowing it to be shared on consoles as well!

mrnicguy7
08-09-2016, 09:54 AM
Hopefully this patch contains a fix for the losing servers permanently b.s mainly, and (crashing) losing so many bikes but i doubt it . At least he cares enough about console version and his game to drop a few msgs to us to let us know when its coming, thx j.

Ewen1972
08-09-2016, 09:59 AM
Good looking forward to the patch as I'm loving this, yeah I lost a save and I'm having hordes every night, but it's a bloody fun game, I was watching grand spartan videos and can see the potential of this game easily

Daweed95
08-09-2016, 10:14 AM
Hi Clare, can you tell us when you think the new patch will be coming out? Will it be today or later this week.

The Overcomer
08-09-2016, 10:35 AM
It was supposed to be Friday, then Today... I'm not sure what the delay is.

Hi MM,

Thank you soo much. You are a legend !!! It is great to see you are very supportive and passionate to your users on your amazing game. There is nothing else like it out there. I've personallhy clocked 200 hours. Your new videos on the POIs and terrain are outstanding. I cant wait to play what you've shown us ... I wish Telltale would be as supportive as you. I will see what the latest console has but most likely I will by the PC version and support TFP on PC.

The Overcomer
08-09-2016, 11:36 AM
It was supposed to be Friday, then Today... I'm not sure what the delay is.

Hi MM,

Thank you soo much. You are a legend !!! It is great to see you are very supportive and passionate to your users on your amazing game. There is nothing else like it out there. I've personallhy clocked 200 hours. Your new videos on the POIs and terrain are outstanding. I cant wait to play what you've shown us ... I wish Telltale would be as supportive as you. I will see what the latest console has but most likely I will by the PC version and support TFP on PC.

nescaf3
08-09-2016, 11:46 AM
I take it the patch is live seeing as all the confirmed console bugs threads have been deleted?

Bigwilly2587
08-09-2016, 11:55 AM
I don't believe you'll need to start a new game, it should just fix around.

Will this include more players in the multiplayer servers? more than 4 would be great and everyone wants this

Rev_strmc
08-09-2016, 12:03 PM
- - - Updated - - -


I take it the patch is live seeing as all the confirmed console bugs threads have been deleted?


The patch is not live yet, I don't think it will be live till later this week or start of next week, seeing how Sony and Microsoft usually do patches on Tuesday morning

Vaedur
08-09-2016, 12:37 PM
PC A15 has console's controller support, but I can assure you that some new features are coming to console.

You had me at new features are coming to console...

Seriously, the hardest / most rewarding gaming I've had in a long time is surviving duo with my seven year old.

bigwill
08-09-2016, 12:41 PM
If everything runs smoothly you'll see it next week =)

hey just wondering how do i zoom in while using the sniper rifle?? or doesnt it allow you to zoom in please help me someone thank you

Molarkie
08-09-2016, 12:49 PM
hey just wondering how do i zoom in while using the sniper rifle?? or doesnt it allow you to zoom in please help me someone thank you


Try up and down on the d-pad but better yet, try the correct forum. This is news and announcements...

Sothasil
08-09-2016, 12:50 PM
Up on the D-pad zooms in I think

Street_Magic
08-09-2016, 12:55 PM
Thanks for passing along, much appreciated.

Armor9
08-09-2016, 01:21 PM
Tomorrow publish the patch? . Said in late july or early August. A little more than two months without repairing the game and there is no official foroums suport talltale chi_t
.

LOL I know you are new here with the console being released but us PC players have gone 4-5 MONTHS and 2-3 months past an estimated date before a patch has been released so if you have to wait a couple of days, you are actually doing good ;)

Platypusmuerte
08-09-2016, 01:36 PM
LOL I know you are new here with the console being released but us PC players have gone 4-5 MONTHS and 2-3 months past an estimated date before a patch has been released so if you have to wait a couple of days, you are actually doing good ;)

Seems like this time though, the delay is MS/Sony cert process. At least yall don't have to deal with them for updates LOL

DoucheVader
08-09-2016, 04:01 PM
I wouldn't bet my life on it.

Drama queen much? I am not betting much on any game. That being said, certainly the console draw distance can be improved.

- - - Updated - - -


Up on the D-pad zooms in I think

Zooms what?

Platypusmuerte
08-09-2016, 04:07 PM
Zooms what?

The posts above were referring to the sniper zoom feature, in the wrong place of course lol

Nef
08-09-2016, 04:58 PM
Looks like the patch'll be next week. Wonder why MS QA is delaying it again.

BluDPlays
08-09-2016, 05:11 PM
Looks like the patch'll be next week. Wonder why MS QA is delaying it again.

probably because AAA games are coming out with some with loads of dlc this week so probably just blindly looking over this game for call of duty or something.

Platypusmuerte
08-09-2016, 05:15 PM
probably because AAA games are coming out with some with loads of dlc this week so probably just blindly looking over this game for call of duty or something.

Pretty sure its on a schedule, not just random pick and choose what to work on for cert.

Either something didn't pass, or things got backed up with NMS or Bob called in sick, who knows.

Actually, if something didn't pass I am ok with that, if it results in more stable patch eh?

But I do hope its tonight too haha !

Rev_strmc
08-09-2016, 05:18 PM
I hope it's tonight or Thursday bc I can't play the game till it's fixed

Platypusmuerte
08-09-2016, 05:21 PM
I hope it's tonight or Thursday bc I can't play the game till it's fixed

It is difficult for sure. We have resorted to a single life play through then delete on last death.

We set it to Nomad, Long days, short loot respawn, High zombie count, normal run mode.

When you die, don't respawn lol. I play with 3 other friends and this has really made things interesting. Really adds a twist to the group-mentality in game.

Then when last poor soul dies, wipe and reset LOL

Vaedur
08-09-2016, 05:23 PM
It is difficult for sure. We have resorted to a single life play through then delete on last death.

We set it to Nomad, Long days, short loot respawn, High zombie count, normal run mode.

When you die, don't respawn lol. I play with 3 other friends and this has really made things interesting. Really adds a twist to the group-mentality in game.

Then when last poor soul dies, wipe and reset LOL

I play solo this way pretty much.

Rev_strmc
08-09-2016, 05:46 PM
It is difficult for sure. We have resorted to a single life play through then delete on last death.

We set it to Nomad, Long days, short loot respawn, High zombie count, normal run mode.

When you die, don't respawn lol. I play with 3 other friends and this has really made things interesting. Really adds a twist to the group-mentality in game.

Then when last poor soul dies, wipe and reset LOL

Yea I pretty much do the same thing. We made it to day 14 or something like that then we all died an stopped playing. We haven't touched our main game in a while due to the bugs

Nef
08-09-2016, 05:53 PM
Lost 6 minibikes myself. Everytime a non-host gets on one, it crashes the host's game. :/

Rev_strmc
08-09-2016, 06:03 PM
Lost 6 minibikes myself. Everytime a non-host gets on one, it crashes the host's game. :/


Yea I've been there so many times I've lost about 30 of them, all in diffrent games but still lost alot of them now in my main game I have all the parts locked up in a gun safe hidden 20 blocks underground lol so no1 can make it an lose it lol

BBallaman369
08-09-2016, 06:06 PM
My buddy just texted me that patch 1.03 is now out.

I wonder when we'll see the patch notes.

nescaf3
08-09-2016, 06:09 PM
There out

Rev_strmc
08-09-2016, 06:10 PM
Where are the patch notes?

Clare
08-09-2016, 06:11 PM
Head out of this thread and go one down, they're in the announcement =)

Malthis
08-09-2016, 09:22 PM
Patch is out, Information can be found here (https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?47374-08-09-PATCH-2-is-now-LIVE-PATCH-NOTES-INCLUDED), this thread is now closed.