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Thread: A17.1: "For builders, we have bolstered XP for harvesting and mining substantially"

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    It is a function of the resources you get per swing. So as far as cars goes, if you get an Engine your XP total for the whole car will be a lot more than if you don't. When mining etc, if you take perks that increase your mined resource count, your XP for mining goes up.
    My post was about how that's not actually true. While there is a general upward trend, I've noticed that once I got modded steel tools and 5/5 Miner and Mother Lode, my XP and iron per boulder was actually significantly less than it was with an unmodded iron pick and fewer perks. It went down even further if I mined with power attacks vs. normal attacks. Resource income from mining is not terribly consistent throughout progression and that means the XP gain isn't either.

  2. #92
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    Do not put points in Miner69er. It decreases your yield (and XP), giving the effect you described. I believe this is a bug as the skill is basically useless / detrimental. I reported it several builds ago.

    As far as power attacks go, no, you just need to do it right. There will be a pattern of light and power attacks you need to find that gives max yields. I test this stuff a LOT since I am the team's miner. It is typically (but not always):

    power - light - light - light - until dead

    And some new numbers, now that I have Steel tools with the right mods and 5/5 Mother Lode...

    Chopping one 1200 HP tree = 401 XP
    Mining one full boulder = 789 XP

    Beat that, Zombie killers.
    Last edited by Ghostlight; 01-11-2019 at 10:34 PM.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Guns are still craftable via parts. They are just different parts. You also still get to use the assembly screen for adding new parts that do a lot more than the old parts. If you want it to be like before then simply donít shoot your gun until ALL mod slots are filled and it will be just like A16..
    Nope. The point of the gun parts was once your gun was assembled, all subsequent parts that you found that were higher level gave small, incremental improvements which was very satisfying progression that lasted till the weapon was level 600. There is nothing comparable in A17. In A17 you will have enough mods to fill every slot the moment you can build any particular gun, and there is nowhere to go to improve your guns after tier 6, which is ~level 100 or day 30.

  4. #94
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    so we are back to finding a auger and hitting max level by day 5.

    now people will complain because they are max level and bored.

    or they are max level and getting high level zombies but their bases are crap because they just auger jockeyed their way up in levels. and are still using crappy weapons and blocks for base.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    OK before you all hate on me, please know that *I* am my co-op group's dedicated miner. I spend 2 to 3 entire days in each in-game week mining boulders etc, so I am greatly affected by this change. Deep breath, then, and shields up....here we go....

    In A17.0, mining boulders and trees was BY FAR the quickest way to level once the player has Iron or Steel tools and is specced for it. I currently get ~200 XP per boulder, and just less than that for a 1200 HP tree. That means that 3 trees or boulders equals killing one zombie.

    Believe me when I say that I would be able to harvest MANY more trees and boulders in a day than you could find and kill zombies. Many many more. You need to go find your next zombie which could be anywhere. I just need to walk 10 steps to the next tree or boulder.

    In our latest play-through I am 12 levels ahead of the guy who does all the looting and zombie killing.

    In short, mining was already extremely OP as an XP-per-hour source from the the mid-game onward.

    And it just got buffed....


    once you have the tools and the perks sure. But then you dont get loot, you trade loot for exp. Now if Im the combat monster of the party I likely dont have miner 69er, motherlode or any of those perks that make it worth it to mine.

    It may be a little much atm but itll get balanced later, they had to buff it a bit for now because it just didnt give enough before to make zombies not the only relevant source of exp

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    power - light - light - light - until dead

    And some new numbers, now that I have Steel tools with the right mods and 5/5 Mother Lode...

    Chopping one 1200 HP tree = 401 XP
    Mining one full boulder = 789 XP

    Beat that, Zombie killers.
    Go into house, activate spawns, go outside.

    Hit, Hit, dead, next, Hit, Hit, dead, next, ... in a nice line for you. Next house, next house ...

    Reward: Lots of loot that you can sell and or use and or ....

    Or

    Place lots of campfires, get lots of screamers ...

    Hit, Hit, dead, next, Hit, Hit, dead, next, ... in a nice line for you.

    Reward: Lots of loot that you can sell and or use and or ....

    Vs

    Mining / Harvesting:

    power - light - light - light - move, power - light - light - light - move.

    Reward: Wood / Stone / Metal /...

    =====

    A fully upgraded Soldier type player, with level 5 skills ( as in a fair comparison to the described miner type ) and will one or two shot most normal zombies, that gladly line up in a single line for you. More difficult zombies eq more XP / kill, so they balance out the extra time per kill.

    Also, while a miner can XP farm trees, at a point all that wood simply becomes useless. Where as a soldier can still get valuable loot from his screamer farming or POIs.

    The issue that a miner can now out XP a soldier, is a matter of tweaking the XP gains. Again balancing...

    In a sense nothing has really changed to the game . We got this new XP system because the developers disliked "spam crafting" and had issues balancing ( and other supposed misuses ) but we simply get another form of spamming a specific task for XP / gains, that has balancing issues. No big surprise, now is it?

  7. #97
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    I think if the vanilla has good XP progression for a solo, Single Player style of game, but with XP Modifiers in the Game Options, we'll find that people can get the best of all worlds.

    A double nice thing that I'd like to see if TFP to setup some game option configurations with a pull down to select different game styles/game modes.

    Builder Mode
    Arcade Mode
    Hardcore Mode
    etc...

    Then provide a mod ability into that pull down and see what game modes people come up with and what becomes popular. I'd guess modders would love the ability to (which, yeah server config files I know), but modders would probably like a set of Modes they could have as template configuration for general game options and have that show in a game mode list like this. Would be a cool alternative to Server Config files too where they could be straight incorporated into the game settings. I know, it may be simply a shuffling of sorts from a server config file perspective. hmm.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjiro View Post
    A fully upgraded Soldier type player, with level 5 skills ( as in a fair comparison to the described miner type ) and will one or two shot most normal zombies, that gladly line up in a single line for you. More difficult zombies eq more XP / kill, so they balance out the extra time per kill.
    As a fully upgraded miner, I am also a fully upgraded (melee) soldier. I can do what you describe very easily (one-shotting if my head-shots are landing). I've tried full days of both activities. There's no comparison.
    Last edited by Ghostlight; 01-12-2019 at 01:14 AM.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaxTeller718 View Post
    Because at this point Im not sure the point is getting across about what even the casuals want.

    Let me stress that MP play is completely screwed now. People who are designated to stay at base and craft and gather will now be STRONGER than people who go out and fight zombies all day. NO one asked for that. People wanted cooking to be more rewarding, building to be more rewarding etc. NOT mining exploiting back.

    At this point I think everyone needs to stop complaining. This whole patch seems to have been a miscommunication in what players actually want.
    It really feels like A17 is a watered-down version of A16 now, but with extra POIs and quests.

  10. #100
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    Once you get to the mid game with max strength and picks with full mods.. you 3 hit rocks and 4 hit iron nodes. You get a holy crapload of exp very quickly.. on par and beyond the zombie killing in a house.

    And that is for normal A17.. if they bump it in 17.1 that is going to be nuts!

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by WowMike2002 View Post
    Once you get to the mid game with max strength and picks with full mods.. you 3 hit rocks and 4 hit iron nodes. You get a holy crapload of exp very quickly.. on par and beyond the zombie killing in a house.

    And that is for normal A17.. if they bump it in 17.1 that is going to be nuts!
    Just to clarify, they did buff it in 17.1. I am on experimental and playing it now. As the patch notes say, they buffed it "considerably".

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    Do not put points in Miner69er. It decreases your yield (and XP), giving the effect you described. I believe this is a bug as the skill is basically useless / detrimental. I reported it several builds ago.
    That depends on what your goals are. You get less per boulder, but if you dig underground, the more important value is yield (resources and xp) per minute. And yield per minute is probably relatively independent of miner69er. You still have a the disadvantage that a vein gives less resources though.

    miner69er is good for scavengers who want to open safes. It is also good for miners who want to build underground roads or big caverns.

  13. #103
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    Item Quality: It makes a huge difference once you have your gun completely finished. In A16 you could assemble one part and it would look like the gun it would become but it wouldnít work. It would only shoot once you had all five parts in their slots. The only difference with A17 is that you can use your gun at a weak level while you work on completing it. But if you want it to be like A16 just donít use your gun until all mod slots are filled just the same way it was in A16.
    There is only this one problem with your analysis here. In A16 you get all your gun parts together pretty quicky, non matter how ♥♥♥♥ty the quality it has. In A17 it is not as easy to get a purple gun that can fit in 5 parts. So if someone are to follow your approach here he will have no guns for use until mid/late game.

    P.S: I can go with either system. I think both system are interesting and fun. May be the two system can be combined in the future. Make it so that guns have 5 parts(quality, which affect damage, durability and mod slot), and 5 slots for functional mods (scope, red dot, handling etc). More parts that leads to perfection surly helps to extend the life of end game.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mday View Post
    There is only this one problem with your analysis here. In A16 you get all your gun parts together pretty quicky, non matter how ♥♥♥♥ty the quality it has. In A17 it is not as easy to get a purple gun that can fit in 5 parts. So if someone are to follow your approach here he will have no guns for use until mid/late game.

    P.S: I can go with either system. I think both system are interesting and fun. May be the two system can be combined in the future. Make it so that guns have 5 parts(quality, which affect damage, durability and mod slot), and 5 slots for functional mods (scope, red dot, handling etc). More parts that leads to perfection surly helps to extend the life of end game.
    Actually, I had a tough time ever completing a gun in A16 solo except for the occasional sawed-off. Even with friends it was no cakewalk: receivers were quite rare and I think out of three co-op campaigns we managed to build one 44. magnum. In A16 both long barreled and sawed-off shotguns used the same receivers. They could have extended this system with the "mods" simply being different versions of barrels, receivers, triggers, scopes, etc...just like in RL. Most guns you'd have come across would have been of a standard configuration but occasionally you might have found a shotgun with a folding stock, or a pistol with red dot, and so on. Almost every other game with modular weapons uses this system because its realistic and relatively simple to code. Honestly, I don't see why they didn't do this - its such an obvious way forward as opposed to an entirely new setup.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mday View Post
    Am I the only guy who enjoy mining underground for 3~4 game day straight?
    There is this odd satisfying feel when I progressively build up wealth in terms of all the material I mined. And the massive cave system that I dig out will eventually become the coolest thing in a 20~40 hrs long game.
    No my husband loves it too. The funny thing is he's a twitch streamer (usually streams Elite Dangerous), so I said to him "Please don't stream 7DtD, because your viewers will fall into a coma watching you mine rocks all day"

    Funny how we all find pleasure in different things.

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