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Thread: Trader and economy balance thread

  1. #16
    Fun Pimps Staff Gazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    I know it sounds counter intuitive, but having traders specialize in a type of product was pretty successful in my mod. Food trader, blacksmith, general goods, etc...
    We had that in the first editions of traders but then got rid of it because we didn't have the time to flesh it out properly.

  2. #17
    Tracker Junuxx's Avatar
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    Perk balance: Fine for buying. Prices go like (these numbers are an approximation) 100,90,80,70,60,50, which is reasonable, but super duper crazy OP for selling Prices go 10,20,30,40,50,60; each level multiplying the no-perk sale price.

    In general, there is too much of a discrepancy between the prices of items with and without quality levels. Once you can craft level >3 stuff, almost nothing without a quality level is worth considering for profitability.

    The trader is selling raw meat too cheaply. 2 per unit or something, almost free compared to other food ingredients.

    Some common supplies like food or cement are sold in too large quantities, removing the challenge in this area. Prices are good though.

    Some more specific items are too rare. It's not fun to have to go all around the map to visit all traders each day, hoping for bullets or a tool and die set.
    Last edited by Junuxx; 01-14-2019 at 10:13 PM.

  3. #18
    Inventor Kattla's Avatar
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    Nonecraftable decorative blocks in larger quantities are something i miss a lot from the
    traders. Once i am set up, AKA late game, that is what i am mostly looking for. I mean like
    pipes and other stuff which is mostly usable for decorations.

    Solar cells are way to pricy. Could have their price dropped by 3/4 at least.
    I am not totally against traders selling some fresh food, but vending machines.. nah, canned
    food ok, fresh food not so ok (vending machines). MAybe add shamwhiches to vending machines,
    the moldy and green ones.

  4. #19
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    Someone in another thread has come up with the idea of introducing a new type of quest where you have to deliver supplies to another trader. This way you could find new traders which would be especially useful on a random generated map.

  5. #20
    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RipClaw View Post
    Someone in another thread has come up with the idea of introducing a new type of quest where you have to deliver supplies to another trader. This way you could find new traders which would be especially useful on a random generated map.
    Definitely would be handy. I don't think I've ever found all the traders in a map, or indeed, more than 2 or 3 of them.

    I also like the idea of trader specialisation for a boost to exploration. If I know "trader x" will buy all my farm produce, but others won't, then I've got a very good reason to shlep out to "trader x" no matter how far away he/she is.

  6. #21
    Inventor Hek Harris's Avatar
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    Solo, I'm richer than Cresus, so it's hard to give any advice other than "raise the prices!"

    Quests pay too much. I think prices should be indexed to the player's reputation with the merchant. And the reputation should depend on successful quests (and their level) or quests that are not successful or canceled (the reputation should drastically fall in this case).

    I would also like merchants to offer more decorative items, anything that is not craftable.

    I would prefer that vending machines disappear, but hey, it's personal: I find these things counter-immersive and totally inappropriate in a devastated world.

    And as has been suggested, I would much prefer specialized dealers, which would require to look for them: a gunsmith, a grocer, a doctor, a furniture merchant, etc.


    edit : and when we're infected or sick, they should refuse to trade (or shoot at sight ^^)
    Last edited by Hek Harris; 01-14-2019 at 10:32 PM.

  7. #22
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    In my opinion, traders should always be the second option.You spent so much time making the A17 harder, and now, i just buy tons of meat from a wending machine ... Everything has to have a price, and be available at the trader, but prices has to be high, so you only chose to buy food for example, if you have no other choice.Otherwise, the whole new things are useless .What is the point of having the new food/drink thing if i can just sell some cloth fragments i can easily get and buy all the food i need for weeks?I find like 15 meat in a wending machine, took down a tent, sold the cloth and brought the meat on day one.First night i was eating bacon and eggs and you call it survival game:P
    I agree, all specialization has to be able to use the trader, but for example if i'm a miner , force me craft something from what i mine and sell it, and so on.Make the trader buy vehicles, ammo, cooked food, steel blocks, hard to get things, for each specialization.
    One of the things i buy from the trader is glue/duct tape, i used to have tons of bones in A16 and craft glue, then duct tape.But then, why is the trader selling glue, and not bones?

  8. #23
    Colony Founder Odetta's Avatar
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    Hey guys and gals, I am working on making traders and the economy as good as possible and need your input. My goals are:

    1.) Support all play styles, so non crafters can get what they need.
    For this let me know if there are any items or resources sorely missing from trader inventory.

    Vehicles or Vehicle parts. They should be sold only after you've ranked your trader up to their cap and for a very high price so non intellect players can acquire them after much work. Trader Perks should be taken out and instead replaced with the Trader Rank system where by doing quests levels up your trader (kind of how it is now with getting higher tier quests) which will increase your Bartering skill and unlock better stuff in their secret stashes. This would be easily modifiable too with by just basically upping or lowering the amount of quest you do in order to rank up. If you want to go extra bad ass have a visual change to his base every time the trader ranks up.



    2.) Make it possible to make a living role playing.
    Whether it be a lumberjack, a rock miner, a blacksmith, hunter, crafter selling his goods, scavenger selling things, I think you should be able to make a modest living. I'd want to know what trades are under powered and which ones are overpowered or not even supported.

    Tie this quests. Something like "Carpenter Quest Tier 2" and make is so you have to craft specific things and then deliver them to the trader. You can make a little kiosk to sell said quests so they are separate from the main trader quests. The rewards can dukes and exp with a chance for a rare item to further enhance your Carpentry skill. This would make Jobs a helluv a lot more immersive and fun.

    3.) Perk balance. Are the trading perks too good? I typically get by without them so maybe they are OP?

    As said earlier, take them out and tie them to questing and ranking up your trader.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hek Harris View Post
    Solo, I'm richer than Cresus, so it's hard to give any advice other than "raise the prices!"

    Quests pay too much. I think prices should be indexed to the player's reputation with the merchant. And the reputation should depend on successful quests (and their level) or quests that are not successful or canceled (the reputation should drastically fall in this case).

    I would also like merchants to offer more decorative items, anything that is not craftable.

    I would prefer that vending machines disappear, but hey, it's personal: I find these things counter-immersive and totally inappropriate in a devastated world.

    And as has been suggested, I would much prefer specialized dealers, which would require to look for them: a gunsmith, a grocer, a doctor, a furniture merchant, etc.


    edit : and when we're infected or sick, they should refuse to trade (or shoot at sight ^^)
    Disagree about that because it goes against "1.) Support all play styles". Most builders couldn't care less about quests so we need to buy everything, specially ammo. So should we pay more because play style? Absolutely not.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_ahriman View Post
    Disagree about that because it goes against "1.) Support all play styles". Most builders couldn't care less about quests so we need to buy everything, specially ammo. So should we pay more because play style? Absolutely not.
    You should pay more, but have something specific to builders to sell for more, for example concrete.Or, a quest to build something for the trader for dukes.If not, an option when i start the game to chose specialization, cause i don't wanna buy all my ammo from the trader just because you want, but ill still do it if it easier than looting or crafting it

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fazi View Post
    You should pay more, but have something specific to builders to sell for more, for example concrete.Or, a quest to build something for the trader for dukes.If not, an option when i start the game to chose specialization, cause i don't wanna buy all my ammo from the trader just because you want, but ill still do it if it easier than looting or crafting it
    Disagree, prices should be same for everyone. Specific "builders" quests are not viable because it would take too long, so reward needs to be very significative and I don't think that's fair.

  12. #27
    Inventor Hek Harris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_ahriman View Post
    Disagree, prices should be same for everyone. Specific "builders" quests are not viable because it would take too long, so reward needs to be very significative and I don't think that's fair.
    Builders could sell their pebbles and their clay as part of quests, like "hey will mine for 4 hours, and you'll get a 10% discount." Thus, they would be happy and let the survival players enjoy the implementation of the reputation in a role play survival game.

    Or maybe players who use the game only in a minecraft way should remember the creative menu and stop ruining the game for their own comfort.
    Last edited by Hek Harris; 01-14-2019 at 11:12 PM.

  13. #28
    Inventor Khulkhuum's Avatar
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    Definitely add some more variety to what you can do for the trader. Call it quests, requests or jobs. This would include (gathering some of the previous solutions also, which i vote for also):
    1. Package delivery to another trader - self explanatory, especially if we take into account various trader types (gunsmith, blacksmith, general goods, etc.), but the package itself (or multiple packages) can have an icon of a box or something, so anything can be inside, but takes up a slot/s in the inventory.
    2. Crafting materials for repairs - I would love to see all of the stations (apart from 1 random or something) to be broken, but you can pick up a quest to repair them (only available at a trader). This would require some specific materials (workbench would require something else than a forge or chem station) and reward with some xp, coins and the possibility to use the station.
    3. Specific materials for a request - The trader has a couple materials that needs for a delivery to another trader or for some work at the camp, so he'll buy them for a higher price (marked in a different color or something). Maybe even the cap for the amount of specific items can be raised. This will give incentive for bringing some materials. Enhanced edition with trader types - specific types will mostly focus on specific items, gunsmiths on guns and mods, builders on building materials, general goods will buy most common items, etc. This will allow taking specific loot to specific traders.
    4. New quest type of finding specific materials - Different than the previous, where this is a quest and you simply have to gather/craft/buy the materials somewhere and bring them to the specific trader. Rewards are similar to regular quest rewards.

    Can't say much about the prices, but definitely more ammo would be needed as it's always a rare commodity. Unless it will be tied with the "questing rank", so that when you raise your tier you can get more ammo and common materials.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord_ahriman View Post
    Disagree, prices should be same for everyone. Specific "builders" quests are not viable because it would take too long, so reward needs to be very significative and I don't think that's fair.
    Specialization means , you do something very easily and the other thing harder cause you chose to specialize.
    I want this game to be the survival crafting horde game it is supposed to be.I want to build, i want to craft, i want to hunt, i want to kill zombies, i want to mine, etc and plan my time accordingly.One of the things that allowed this was the raising of specific skills by doing that action>i hate spamcrafting, but maybe some skills need to be that way.Specialization is very important on MP, but on the forum we are just maybe 1% or less of the total player base.On single player, you can't really specialize.
    If you want specialization , you need to have something more than others on that field but also loose something.That is how it works.If you wanna be a builder but still loot like looter, that is not possible not in real life, and not in games.

  15. #30
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    Trader perks for selling stuff, is not only op it is bugged and broken.
    Description says 10% better prices, etc what really happens is 100% per level.
    Current meta is go to at least Barter 3 or 4 right away, then wrench cars sell the parts and buy high level guns, tools and mods with Barter 4 you can buy lvl 6's, and have almost end game gear at player level 30ish.

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