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Thread: Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

  1. #5776
    Colon Pounder The Gronk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird Nerd View Post
    We should be able to pick them up from the ground first, before we get a mod like that.
    That many physics objects bouncing around would swiftly send the frame-rate into single digits, if not fractions.

  2. #5777
    Hunter Bird Nerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gronk View Post
    That many physics objects bouncing around would swiftly send the frame-rate into single digits, if not fractions.
    Maybe, we'll have to see how the game shapes up.

  3. #5778
    Colon Pounder The Gronk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bird Nerd View Post
    Maybe, we'll have to see how the game shapes up.
    I appreciate your optimism but there ain't no maybe about it without some form of NASA supercomputer or a secondary (primitive) physics engine running on a separate thread or five.

    You're looking at around 30 physics objects per clip per person in a multiplayer environment, worse if they have SMG's, and that's not counting turrets or bandits pumping out rounds.

  4. #5779
    Hunter Bird Nerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gronk View Post
    I appreciate your optimism but there ain't no maybe about it without some form of NASA supercomputer or a secondary (primitive) physics engine running on a separate thread or five.

    You're looking at around 30 physics objects per clip per person in a multiplayer environment, worse if they have SMG's, and that's not counting turrets or bandits pumping out rounds.
    I don't know, some low-poly casings could do the trick. I mean we already have items that kind of have physics, they don't lag out the game. Maybe @faatal could give some insight if this is a realistic idea.

  5. #5780
    Community Moderator Crater Creator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krizzen View Post
    Losing your gun isn't a thing AFAIK.
    Well, some players have been known to hurl their only bow over their base wall, during horde night, and get it on video. Does that count?

  6. #5781
    Zombie Hunter Dimpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    I don't think building supplies matter that much. Its fun to build and making that tedious would just ruin that aspect. The main thing is healing items like food and medicine that should be limited.
    If building supplies were just used for building your base, then the huge stack sizes would be fine. However, they take away from the game for adventuring or looting.
    More specifically, it takes away from the emergent gameplay of using the environment to your advantage. Let's say there's a house where one room has 20 zombies, and there's a large wood pile outside. A cool solution would be to use the wood outside to make spikes and use those to ensnare the zombies.

    With insane stack sizes however, I already have 1000 wood on me at all times. Maybe I'd use spikes, but it would be because I considered the time spent whaling on a tree to recoup the loss to be more valuable than the potential ammo/hitpoints I'd lose going solo. Maybe I'd also harvest the wood pile, but it would because they yield more material per hit than a tree, saving me time in the long run, not because of any strategic decision based on my unique circumstances.

    I would much rather the moment-to-moment decisions be "how can I make use of the limited resources available" rather than "Is this going to be worth the grind I'll have to do to make it up?".

    I do have a few rough ideas on how to fix it, but player feedback is probably more important

  7. #5782
    Leader Aldranon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crater Creator View Post
    Well, some players have been known to hurl their only bow over their base wall, during horde night, and get it on video. Does that count?
    It was dropped, deliberately, to get the zombies overconfident and henceforth, make mistakes.


    GENIUS
    is rarely understood in its own time...



    MM, can I get early access to A18 now?

  8. #5783
    Community Moderator Crater Creator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RestInPieces View Post
    On that I definitely agree - that's why spoilage is needed on top of everything. Farming still just needs an additional small cost to it, but without spoilage nothing is solved. I don't see another way to balance supply VS demand like one could do in a currency-driven economy, because in the case of food supply must always be greater than demand. And if supply is greater than demand the player's food surplus will always keep getting bigger.
    Yes, supply can exceed demand, which means you get a surplus that grows over time. That also goes for meat and iron and nearly every resource. But the rate of growth is what makes farming the worst. Only farming yields grow exponentially. At least, I can't think of any other resource that grows exponentially (water blocks, but an individual water block is inexhaustible anyway). That's why farming, unlike hunting or mining or other things, leads to runaway growth that can't be balanced without changing the system, like crops that get damaged or seeds you can't craft, as has been suggested.

  9. #5784
    Inventor Kalex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n2n1 View Post
    Just some suggestions for little things.

    Perhaps you should make the bottom section of the nest spherical, so that the nest looked better when it appear the slope.


    just the thing i always think about when i see
    ...yes, there are some people who care
    If the nest were up in a tree, sure. But ground nests are shaped differently than that and most the nests in the game are ground nests.

  10. #5785
    Zombie Hunter
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    Not sure. Sounds like we need to nerf feathers big time
    NO don't nerf feather, I love arrows. And do whatever you want, but arrows are not enough ever.

  11. #5786
    Reconstructionist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crater Creator View Post
    But the rate of growth is what makes farming the worst. Only farming yields grow exponentially.
    No, it doesn't grow exponentially. At least not in A17 until you have invested a lot of points. In A17 you need 4 items to create a seed. To get 4 items from each plant you have to be level 4 in "Living of the Land". But you have to be at level 7 at Fortitude. In total you have to invest 14 points and get to this point that you have exponential growth. In addition you need a hoe to be able to create a garden. You have to find one or to create it yourself you have to be at least level 20, with "Hammer and Forge" at level 2 and with intellect at level 5.

    You can hunt immediately on day 1 and only one bone and no skills are needed to make a bone knife.

    The following changes have been announced for A18:

    * The production of a seed costs 5 items and no longer 4 items
    * You need 50 nitrates to make a seed.

    In order to achieve exponential growth here, much more is needed than was the case in A17. I hope you are satisfied with that.

    For A19 or later it was also said that zombies and animals can trample plants.

  12. #5787
    Fun Pimps Staff Gazz's Avatar
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    Statistically, farm yields can grow exponentially but people tend to gloss over the time and commitment that it takes.

    Specialising in fortitude is not a favourite early game strategy. Unless you find a large farm POI it will take game weeks for that farm to kick into gear if you are actually using part of it to feed yourself.
    If you don't use your farm for food then the whole argument is a straw man because that farm is only a hobby.

    Should a farm eventually guarantee that you won't starve?
    I would think so. Humans have been using this exploit for thousands of years and nowadays many consider it a legit strategy.

    What really makes farms so powerful is that baked potatoes or similar simple foods do have the same effect as high quality dishes if the stack size is high. Just eat 5 or 10 times as many...
    Inventory space is a major balancing factor and so far the policy has been to err on the side of generosity until we get to balancing this part for real.

    The way I see it, A18 is going to be the biggest content update ever and a lot more time and energy is going into balancing rather than replacing entire frameworks and while farming is an issue, it's not in the top 5. This is not Farmville: Zombie Edition.

  13. #5788
    Reconstructionist Damocles's Avatar
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    What are the top 5 issues?

  14. #5789
    Reconstructionist Odetta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
    What are the top 5 issues?
    1. Performance
    2. Performance
    3. Performance
    4. Performance
    5. Performance

  15. #5790
    Ranger beHypE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    Not sure. Sounds like we need to nerf feathers big time
    Definitely. Bow and arrow is the go to weapon in every single of my groups playthroughs. Craftable on day 1, 100% reliable, unlimited ammunition, surprisingly accurate even at its lowest quality/tier, totally stealthy and basically fits every single situation, even indoors. I'm forcing myself to go melee early game because I feel like playing 100% bow & arrow is way too easy, at least melee forces you to have a little bit of finger sync and messing up your timing has an actual consequence.

    Oh, and the makeshift bow is way too powerful. I mean, WAY too powerful. With 1 or 2 points in the perception tree (like Boom! Headshot) you can very quickly 1-shot basic zombies if you crouch, even on Warrior difficulty. It should do less damage, be less precise and have a way shorter range (with some technique you can snipe zombies from a very long distance since it has "arrow-drop" but no damage fall-off). Honestly it's so good that I don't even play with guns other than using them as a backup plan if ♥♥♥♥ gets mad crazy, just because gun usage comes with so many disadvantages (repair cost, ammunition cost/craft time, noise) while you don't really need the extra damage in a lot of situations.

    That being said i'm TOTALLY convinced higher-end bows (compound, crossbow) should be a very viable playstyle so probably don't nerf those. The real issue is coming from the makeshift bow.

    Also yeah, feathers. If feathers were (way) less abundant it would make you think twice about using your bow when you have other, more risky solutions available.

    Since you're talking a lot about stack sizes these days, have you thought about having a max stack-size of like 20 arrows per slot but adding quivers to the game ? Quivers could work nicely with your new 3-tier system, along the lines of having stack-sizes of respectively 50, 100 and 200, and possibly improving reload time.
    Last edited by beHypE; 1 Week Ago at 09:21 AM.

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