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Thread: Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

  1. #11476
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blake_ View Post
    I have a question, Madmole. How does mining feel in a18? we didn't see much of that in the streams. Barring the obvious issues that come with every new tweak, how good is it vs previous versions of the system?. In a17 lead is everywhere underground. Iron too. Nitrate and Coal though..... they feel like the old forge book. Because you may see a patch or two of gravel, but you very often dig to bedrock straight from the gravel patch and nothing.
    I think you will like it. We're modeling really nice surface ore models which make it easy to find the underground ore mines. Underneath it is voxel ore (marching cubes). So even if someone mines the surface ore boulder the terrain voxel ore is visible (just harder to see). The in ground ore gives more than the fancy surface rock, so hopefully most players will dig it down and not just cob all the surface ore.

    The old generic stones will probably just drop stone and a bit of iron. There will be ample deposits to find now. I'll show it once its ready, we just pulled the trigger on getting the surface ore today, the ore piles were still too hard to find. This will solve it once and for all.

  2. #11477
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    Uh, finding your way back is really easy with a compass, not so much easy without one.
    Back to what? What are you trying to find? The OP was talking about N S E W, not quest markers or map markers. Those are what make it easy, the actual N S E W and having a compass are useless IMO.

  3. #11478
    Colony Founder Viktoriusiii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    Its a technical thing, we can't track kills from regular blocks. If we make the spikes model entities the FPS will crash and burn.
    See? Now we're getting somewhere This is something I can reason with.
    Thank you for beeing honest. That explains a lot and makes me rest easy, even if I think its sad. I know sometimes technical limitation are a limiting factor.

  4. #11479
    RangerRedd Mechanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    Who's nullifying anything? Traps kill stuff. Should players be able to thrive from wooden spikes? No. Later tech trees that require multiple difficult to acquire resources, perks and tech? Yes.
    I do hope the turrets have been fixed, also the lights, although not as important. I did not engage in much "tower defense" gameplay in A17 because the turrets wasted tons of ammo trying to shoot through walls. I was actually really surprised you guys published with this bug intact. I know Prime has been tasked with other things, but AFAIK he also made the electrical system, just hoping he gets it in usable shape before you guys release ye ol Kraken this time.

    And I totally agree that it should take far more than just spikes. I have played a TON of actual Tower Defense games, the way some peeps zone out on solitaire, etc. Although I do like the in game turrets, I would love to see more types and especially the ability to upgrade them, two staple elements of even the most basic Tower Defense systems.

  5. #11480
    Tracker Locusta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    Crafting a bunch of traps is not participating in the horde event. I don't want players sitting inside doing nothing and then at 4 am go out and collect all their gifts.
    Isn’t crafting traps EXACTLY what a Tower Defence game is?? It feels less and less like a TD game and more like a looter shooter with each update. Making traps should be viable as a tactic or could even be adapted into another character class! A mechanic who’s good with their hands but not so great with combat.

    Loc

  6. #11481
    RangerRedd Mechanimal's Avatar
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    Tower Defense talk... and I do not expect any of this to be crammed in last minute for A18, though one can hope, I do however hope what IS in there simply works properly this time.

    That said, most TD games I have played start with some kind of Arrow Tower, in 7DTD that could be essentially a crossbow on a turret base. Fill it with arrows, maybe require upgrade to take better arrow types. Anyway those usually upgrade in 2 ways arrow type and firing speed.

    The "auto turret", the 9mm Turret. Same, start with basic ammo, upgrade to better ammo type and firing speed.

    Thankfully vultures are the only flying mob so an exclusively anit-air turret is uneccesary. I never did like that part of most TD games, needing air specific turrets that do not attack ground targets. Usually arrow and guns did both anway, and it would in 7dtd, so can you can efffectively skip this one. Yay.

    Mortar Tower. Ok maybe this one is OP in this case, plus it would be messy, I can see a lot of regret the morning after a BM using one of these.

    Tesla Tower. Well you have electric fence, good enough? Yeah sure, the only dif could be a tower that reaches out, like an actual tesla tower, and delivers a jolt when Z's are within range. They also usually jump to multiple enemies at a time, usually upgrading extends that number. Although one of these could be fun, I don't know how you'd prevent it from shocking players too.

    Mage Tower. Meh, skip it, wrong lore.

    Shotgun Tower. Yeah we have a shotty turret, good enough. Usually these have shorter range but pack more punch(and only attack ground targets). They also tend to upgrade into flame turrets for some reason. I'd jsut make that it's own tower, if/when you ever finish that one(know it was in the works)

    Rocket Tower. This onee varies amongst games, a lot of them just add rockets to high end bullet turrets. In the context of 7DTD I'd make it it's own thing, if you ever make one, and also predict a ton of regret after use if not used properly.

    Slowing Tower. Well I think spikes and barbed wire have this covered.

    Not sure how many actual Tower Defense games you have played, but I have played with dozens and dozens over the decades, one of my fav time killing mini games. I was, and still am, super excited it is an "official" intention of the game. Just some input on how to make it more so.

  7. #11482
    Colony Founder DUST2DEATH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanimal View Post
    Tower Defense talk... and I do not expect any of this to be crammed in last minute for A18, though one can hope, I do however hope what IS in there simply works properly this time.

    That said, most TD games I have played start with some kind of Arrow Tower, in 7DTD that could be essentially a crossbow on a turret base. Fill it with arrows, maybe require upgrade to take better arrow types. Anyway those usually upgrade in 2 ways arrow type and firing speed.

    The "auto turret", the 9mm Turret. Same, start with basic ammo, upgrade to better ammo type and firing speed.

    Thankfully vultures are the only flying mob so an exclusively anit-air turret is uneccesary. I never did like that part of most TD games, needing air specific turrets that do not attack ground targets. Usually arrow and guns did both anway, and it would in 7dtd, so can you can efffectively skip this one. Yay.

    Mortar Tower. Ok maybe this one is OP in this case, plus it would be messy, I can see a lot of regret the morning after a BM using one of these.

    Tesla Tower. Well you have electric fence, good enough? Yeah sure, the only dif could be a tower that reaches out, like an actual tesla tower, and delivers a jolt when Z's are within range. They also usually jump to multiple enemies at a time, usually upgrading extends that number. Although one of these could be fun, I don't know how you'd prevent it from shocking players too.

    Mage Tower. Meh, skip it, wrong lore.

    Shotgun Tower. Yeah we have a shotty turret, good enough. Usually these have shorter range but pack more punch(and only attack ground targets). They also tend to upgrade into flame turrets for some reason. I'd jsut make that it's own tower, if/when you ever finish that one(know it was in the works)

    Rocket Tower. This onee varies amongst games, a lot of them just add rockets to high end bullet turrets. In the context of 7DTD I'd make it it's own thing, if you ever make one, and also predict a ton of regret after use if not used properly.

    Slowing Tower. Well I think spikes and barbed wire have this covered.

    Not sure how many actual Tower Defense games you have played, but I have played with dozens and dozens over the decades, one of my fav time killing mini games. I was, and still am, super excited it is an "official" intention of the game. Just some input on how to make it more so.
    Id take a mortor tower as long as it damages the terrain and blocks equally so you cant just spam it.
    That would make you have to consider the hole it dug and then zombies digging through the terrain under your base undermining the buildings SI.

    Defense grid is one of my all time fav's.

  8. #11483
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanimal View Post
    Mortar Tower. Ok maybe this one is OP in this case, plus it would be messy, I can see a lot of regret the morning after a BM using one of these.
    Not so much these days, I don't think. Explosions from rockets don't damage the terrain much. Perhaps not at all... not sure. The Demolisher will explode and supposedly won't do much to terrain either.

  9. #11484
    Tracker Locusta's Avatar
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    Bear traps should be a thing. Could be an early trap as it could only cost scrap or forged iron but would have to be reset, so single use. Their purpose could be to immobilize, not kill. This could add a different method of play. I can picture walking around with a couple of these to catch a couple of zeds and melee them after. Would be a slow way to kill zombies, but that’s the trade off. Slow but effective.
    Last edited by Locusta; 07-18-2019 at 12:26 AM.

  10. #11485
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mechanimal View Post
    I can see a lot of regret the morning after a BM using one of these.
    Laxatives: The Ins and Outs....

  11. #11486
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    Back to what? What are you trying to find? The OP was talking about N S E W, not quest markers or map markers. Those are what make it easy, the actual N S E W and having a compass are useless IMO.
    I guess we play different... I wander around and explore.

  12. #11487
    RangerRedd Mechanimal's Avatar
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    I'm also not sure how many players really make use of the Tower Defense elements. I loved it in A16, even with the stupid Z's, because the turrets worked right. Then the new pathing in A17 made it almost too easy, for I knew I'd finally get them to go where I wanted to, even with stupid turrets(it's like they traded AI with the Z, lol). I deal with the turret bug now by just making them point in extreme directions to minimize wall blasting.

    One of my first bases was a small house on the lake near the trader in Navezgane. I actually routed the Z's through the house, right where all my main stuff was, without a single failure. They'd eventually just go upstairs, fall, repeat, and if did make it farther there were a few shotty turrets watchin my back. Got to the point where I'd just hang out by my fireplace full of forges and organize, craft, and other casual stuff DURING a blood moon. They had quite a gauntlet of barbed wire and electric fences before even reaching my door. But man was it satisfying to just hang out, open the front door shoot a few Z, close it and go back to what I was doing. The turrets, even as-is, if used right along with the rest of the goodies, are kind of OP if you do it right. Also never have to worry about screamers, unless I want to, for the XP, then it's a damn competition with my turrets to get her to scream before she dies.

    I am very much looking forward to getting XP from turret kills btw.

  13. #11488
    Scavenger Dreyseth's Avatar
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    about BloodMoon

    Quote Originally Posted by Gareee View Post
    Maybe even something simple like just adding a counter that counts kills on horde night kills and if players hit specific percents of the total horde kills, then they get an experience point or a good loot drop, or the thanks from the closest trader for thinning the herds of the undead.

    Simple is good and I also like the idea of a reward after the BloodMoon is over.


    It sounds like one part of a solution that people from all camps should be able to get behind would be to utilize the existing perk system to simply grant a balanced "participation reward" based on the percentage of the player's horde that is dispatched during the event.

    This reward would be in the form of a temporary stats buff. Maybe it's an XP% bonus similar to the use of the Nerdy Glasses, but ends after 30 minutes of playtime.

    Getting through 100% of the horde would grant 100% of the bonus, while 30% of the horde killed would only yield 30% of the bonus, etc.


    As it's a perk it can easily be balanced or valued without complex considerations of how the rest of the game normally functions.

  14. #11489
    RangerRedd Mechanimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DUST2DEATH View Post
    Id take a mortor tower as long as it damages the terrain and blocks equally so you cant just spam it.
    That would make you have to consider the hole it dug and then zombies digging through the terrain under your base undermining the buildings SI.

    Defense grid is one of my all time fav's.
    Yeah terrain and block damage was my main concern with such a tower, if it only effected enemies? Hell yeah. But I see other complications, like blast radius and it having clearance on launch. I can just imagine many situations where it could backfire, and that is fine. However they do it, if they do it, like a turret that throws grenades, or C4, or molotovs, pipe bombs, whatever. Just have one that tosses them, ha, molotovs via turret would be a horrible idea(but I would make some, RIP)

    Yeah I have Defense Grid in my library, TD games are prob the most abundant thing in my library actually. I have even played a few Zombie themed ones.

    I did forget the Poison Tower. Not sure if this one fits. Heck the ones they have are good already, would just like to see more, but is optional, jsut thought it would be a fun topic to bring up here in the forum to see how peeps and devs feel about where it's at so far and where it could go, etc.

  15. #11490
    Scavenger THARN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    No, its good to get builds out. Leaving it in the oven too long and it might burn.
    exactly.... And on a side note... I'm on vacation next week and the wife is going through menopause....
    :P

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