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Thread: 0XP RolMod

  1. #166
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    It's already an sdx mod so might as well use more sdx mods.
    I know, but I don't know how to do SDX so that makes me reliant upon the schedule and kindness of others. Also, the non-SDX modlets can be taken separately and used by those who don't want to run SDX mods. The trader quest modlet I just did is super simple and non-impactful and will probably work fine with most any other modlet.

    In fact, the more I think about it maybe it is better the way it is where if you end up closer to the trader you know it just points back to him. That at least lets you logically eliminate a whole circular area that you know NOT to explore if trying to find another trader. Making it so the game automatically ignores already found traders might be a bit OP and gamey. Whose to say that the trader the person who buried the treasure knew about wasn't the same one you knew.
    Last edited by Roland; 05-10-2019 at 09:44 PM.

  2. #167
    Colony Founder sphereii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    It's already an sdx mod so might as well use more sdx mods.
    He'll be harmony soon. 😀

  3. #168
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sphereii View Post
    He'll be harmony soon. 😀
    I’m happily married, thanks.

  4. #169
    Colony Founder sphereii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    I’m happily married, thanks.
    Not sure how compatible those are

  5. #170
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    Here are my 2 dukes roland -

    I would note that I think you missed one stun animation Roland. There is one where the zeds do not ragdoll but fall on their back. It does not happen during death but still happens when they are stunned.

    Also, I don't think it is something that can addressed but stunned zeds still take up worldspace - IOW you cannot walk over them - while dead ones do not and this is a pretty dead giveaway that they are going to get back up. More importantly, they tend to complicate pathing for other zeds - they tend to knock them off ledges and things like that. I may redesign my base to mitigate that as it makes hordes more likely to loop with my current design and that is the one really glaring hole in the AI ATM.

    I have to say that I was prepared to dislike removing the animations. I just did not see a reason to hide that information from the player. This feature really has grown on me a LOT though. I like the fact that I have to actually check if a zed is eliminated before turning my back - adds a very real and very immersive threat. It really is not so bad with a melee character but is hell for my archery.

    Progression seems far slower to me. I like it better thus far - I have enough points to get set up without any problem and the higher prices with higher perks allows you to branch out a LOT more in the basic stuff but forces you to make some decisions when looking at the higher tiers. Trying this out with 17.3, the higher wild zed count really synergises with this a lot. I find myself weighing killing zeds to ensure they do not build up or letting them go to save time that is better spent elsewhere.

    I play warrior and think that the GS should move a little faster. It seems to take a bit longer to start getting the tougher zeds out there and considering avoidance is much more ingrained into your MOD I think it would be more immersive and fun to have feral zeds out earlier IMHO though this is, of course, very subjective.

    I think you have finally found a death penalty that is stiff enough for me to finally ditch DID - I hope...

    Thanks for creating this - this has improved the game a LOT for me and I was really happy with it before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    My altar has sphereii’s picture.
    For those of us that follow the 0 xp path of Rolland, it is not for us to question but to experience. Who am I, the lowly user, to judge what visage the holiest of holies has blessed the followers of his vision with?









    ps. ignore all those 'judgments' above for the purposes of ths statment lol.

  6. #171
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback. I think if It’s possible I’d like to make dead zombies have collision like stunned zombies do rather than the other way around. There have been times when I was saved because 2-3 stunned zombies plugged up a doorway and gave me time to escape. It felt pretty awesome.

    I can increase the gamestage multiplier upward—especially for Warrior and above. I was worried about making it ramp up too quickly given all the complaints from 17.1. What day was it when you noticed the Ferals start to appear?

    Did you do a lot of quests or not so much?

    I know what you mean about death. It’s devastating to go from getting 3 skillpoints a day down to 1 again. And then when you are just a few in game hours from getting back up to three, it is nerve wracking to get into a situation where you might die.

    One of the stated weaknesses of this set up is the incentive to sit at home and just let the game generate free skillpoints. Have you felt any temptation to avoid going out and playing?
    Last edited by Roland; 05-13-2019 at 04:11 AM.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I think if It’s possible I’d like to make dead zombies have collision like stunned zombies do rather than the other way around. There have been times when I was saved because 2-3 stunned zombies plugged up a doorway and gave me time to escape. It felt pretty awesome.

    I can increase the gamestage multiplier upward—especially for Warrior and above. I was worried about making it ramp up too quickly given all the complaints from 17.1. What day was it when you noticed the Ferals start to appear?
    Not sure what day. I don't think I seen a single one in the standard areas in the first week though. Wasteland is a different story - day one gave me a few ferals and several zed bears. Might be a fluke but I avoid wasteland for the first few weeks now if I can lol.
    Did you do a lot of quests or not so much?
    2 per day from day 2, 3 and possibly 4. Then about one per day after. Not sure how I feel about traders giving points. I don't really like the fact that quests are pretty central to early game play because you are so inefficient at everything else that there is little incentive for other tasks. When you have to swing your ax twice to get a single stone, there is no point in mining. Quests give you a lot of points though if you start busting them out like that though and that somewhat moves the xp farm. Considering they give dukes and items, the rewards are very high as well.
    I know what you mean about death. It’s devastating to go from getting 3 skillpoints a day down to 1 again. And then when you are just a few in game hours from getting back up to three, it is nerve wracking to get into a situation where you might die.
    Devastating - yes. And that is what is needed in SP IMHO because for survival to mean something death must be very bad. I thought that removing skill points would be the only real way to go but was fairly sure that such would be impossible. Then you found out how to do so by removing future points rather than existing ones and still be in a logical framework. The fact that death actually helps GS in vanilla is something that still annoys me to no end - in many ways death is POSITIVE in vanilla.
    One of the stated weaknesses of this set up is the incentive to sit at home and just let the game generate free skillpoints. Have you felt any temptation to avoid going out and playing?
    None whatsoever. I know MM mentioned something like this once but I think it is a really surface complaint without depth. For one, you cant just sit in your base and acquire points until well after the point where that would even make sense.

    IOW, in the beginning, if you were to sit there to passively generate points your are going to starve and/or die of thirst. Those points are doing nothing for you. The fact that the game stage marches on no matter how dumb you are helps this and another reason I really like your mod - difficulty should have nothing to do with the player IMHO. This also increases the DP too - those points you are losing are, in a way, permanent losses. After hunger ant thirst become a non issue then you need to be building a base and gathering resources. If you don't then those points are going to do nothing for you when the zeds tear apart your wooden palisade. Late game, sure you can certainly do this. Late game you are looking for that silencer or other hole in your equipment and getting resources to replenish your bullets. What are you going to do with those points when you don't have the stuff to back it up.

    Once you are fully kitted out and have no more need of anything, sure you can sit there for the points but again, why? If, at that point, this is really what you want to do you are already godlike so who cares.

    Finally, the increased zeds made me cower in my home for the first 5 min of the first night. That was boring so out I went. I do not think it incentives you to sit at home at all - no one plays a game to do nothing. It does HEAVILY incentivise the manner that you go out though - you are going to do it in a safer manner.

  8. #173
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FA_Q2 View Post
    Not sure what day. I don't think I seen a single one in the standard areas in the first week though. Wasteland is a different story - day one gave me a few ferals and several zed bears. Might be a fluke but I avoid wasteland for the first few weeks now if I can lol.
    Let me ask this then. In your opinion when should ferals start making an appearance? I was thinking 2nd or 3rd week of the game but are you feeling like they should be appearing during the first week?

    2 per day from day 2, 3 and possibly 4. Then about one per day after. Not sure how I feel about traders giving points. I don't really like the fact that quests are pretty central to early game play because you are so inefficient at everything else that there is little incentive for other tasks. When you have to swing your ax twice to get a single stone, there is no point in mining. Quests give you a lot of points though if you start busting them out like that though and that somewhat moves the xp farm. Considering they give dukes and items, the rewards are very high as well.
    So quests...... It's a tough choice. Here is why I decided to have quests award skillpoints:

    1) I read a lot of feedback that quests were generally not worth the rewards especially the higher tier quests. I kind of felt the same way and I knew that there was little in the game as valuable as skillpoints. Making a skillpoint be part of the reward would definitely make them worth doing.

    2) Quests involve doing activities that are "playing the game". You are exploring the world, clearing and looting a poi, and going head to head against zombies while trying not to die. So creating a situation where people would farm quests seemed acceptable because of the travel time, the risk, and the variety of activities involved. At least it wasn't the same as doing one action repetitively for hours.

    3) There is a thematic connection between doing a job for the trader who is obviously an experienced survivalist and gaining some training from him in some area of your choice. So the skillpoint increasing cooking wasn't because you went out and killed a bunch of zombies and retrieved a package. The skillpoint increasing cooking was representative of you asking the trader, "So...what's the best way to cook up bacon and egss without ruining it?" And because you did him the favor he decides to help you out in area you desired some help.

    4) Finally, I wanted there to be a way for players to gain points more quickly than once per day if they so desired. Go clear some zombies, then dig up a stash, and then retrieve a package will net you 3 extra points but they weren't free and you have to do all that traveling.

    The bad?

    1) Quests right now are pretty meh... But that is just right now. As new quests are created and hopefully fan-made quests are also created this will get a lot better.

    2) Trader becomes even more critical to the game which some people really hate. But I don't. The more I play the more I like the trader but I want his landclaim removed. I want zombies busting in while I'm trading with him and I have to kill them and help him make repairs. I want to live in his base and not get kicked out. For multiplayer with people you don't know of course you want an invulnerable trader. But for single player and playing with friends/family...nobody is going to try and kill the trader but everyone would want to protect him if necessary.
    So I think removing the landclaim and the teleport away after 10pm is what I'd like to add next. But...at any rate I know that for those who don't like the trader this mod works against them because you can't ignore the bonus skillpoints for doing jobs very easily.

    3) Players could possibly easily outpace the gamestage difficulty curve by farming quests and earning skillpoints to the point that they become invulnerable long before gamestages makes things harder. I can adjust the economy of the attributes and perks to be more expensive but then that just makes the trader and quests become that much more important in the eyes of players.


    Finally, the increased zeds made me cower in my home for the first 5 min of the first night. That was boring so out I went. I do not think it incentives you to sit at home at all - no one plays a game to do nothing. It does HEAVILY incentivise the manner that you go out though - you are going to do it in a safer manner.
    This was my experience as well. Plus it is really funny. I truly believe that I am up to the task for pretty much anything so I don't wait to do a quest until I get my skillpoints because I honestly don't believe that I'm going to die. I feel very optimistic and I want the skillpoint from the quest along with the ones that will be coming at the end of the day. So then I end up dying because I got greedy and over encumbered myself, or I forgot to craft bandages and a lucky hit makes me start bleeding, or, or, or.... When you were planning to get four skillpoints and you lose all four and now have to wait a whole hour to get one...Well, I was very angry AT MYSELF for not having the bandages on hand.

  9. #174
    Reconstructionist Khulkhuum's Avatar
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    On my first try with 0xp mod (a bit earlier in its version) i had a pretty cool night. Decided to try it out on Nav and went to my regular side of a small town in the forest. Started building up a small base on poles, but couldn't finish due to Zs all around and night coming (no visibility). So i took a spot (in the open i might add!) in the darkness and waited, as that was everything i could do at the moment. Didn't think of running away.

    The numbers increased around me, but they could barely see me. Time passed slowly when i heard the familiar sound. A screamer... It had to go, especially as i heard it close by. Big mistake though, it called upon another screamer. Killed it too, but a third came in. Clubbing the regulars i finally managed to get to the last screamer and kill it, partly in complete darkness, partly when the moon came up and i could at least see the silhouettes in front of me.

    The bow didn't prove to be much useful, especially as i didn't have much wood, rocks and feathers. I've used the last of my arrows as the morning came and got rid of the 15 or something zombies that remained shambling around my improvised base. More came, but i did survive...

    Too many zombies? Maybe, but it was hell of a fun ride!

  10. #175
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khulkhuum View Post
    Too many zombies? Maybe, but it was hell of a fun ride!
    How on earth could've it been fun? You got zero xp for those kills...


  11. #176
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    I've been experimenting with trying to remove the protection from trader POI's. I suspect (but don't know for sure yet) that going to the trader might be a bit more interesting if zombies can start breaking in. You may eventually find that you need to do some repairs (or even upgrades) to the trader's base and it might be fun to even try a bloodmoon defending his base and keeping him safe through the night.

    I have gone into the prefabs folder and changed all the settlement_trader_01 through 05 prefabs first by deleting the properties having to do with protection and teleporting and then just changing their values. Neither of those did anything. Next up is to change the property "trader area" from true to false which may break the "find the trader" quest but might turn off protections also.

    If anyone has any other ideas or has already solved removing the protection and would permit me to use their work in my mod I would be grateful. Could be there is a hidden hard coded component to the trader protection....

  12. #177
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    Did you start a new game after removing the properties?

  13. #178
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    yes. But maybe I should do a full clean.

  14. #179
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    Reason I ask is that chunks save that data, so if you're using previously generated chunks, you'll still see the protection.

  15. #180
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    I started a new game for each trial. I actually experimented first to see if I could xpath to the prefabs folder but nope. So then I just directly removed them from my files. Then I restored them and manually changed the values all to 0,0,0. Each time I started a new game and did the starter quest in order to get the trader quest in order to go to the trader and see if I could break stuff.

    Got kinda grindy....

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