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Thread: LBD talk is RIGHT HERE

  1. #16
    Colony Founder RestInPieces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meganoth View Post
    Diminishing benefits may have helped in the long run, but the start of the game would still have been the same. You have a number of recipes that add to ability X, you craft each of them until the benefit gets too low.

    If I remember correctly Roland always gave the reason that you could get XP parallel to other XP generating activities that really put a nail in the coffin of craft XP. That reason would also still be valid even with diminishing returns.

    Now craft grind is a mechanism that works perfectly well in MMOs all over the world and especially in the asia grinders. For the right players it will be a godsend. For some others something they can largely ignore. I just don't agree with "everyone will be happy". THAT never happens.
    True, when saying everyone would be happy I mostly mean that those who do want to use it and enjoy it will be happy, those who are inclined to use it but don't enjoy it won't be inclined anymore and those who want to ignore it will just ignore it without feeling gimped.

    And yes, diminishing benefits alone won't be enough. But a certain combination would definitely do the trick. For example increasing the cost of "spam crafting" by making the yield percentage of scrapped materials depend on the level of skill (especially for early game). Or also adding a time-dependent diminishing return with a random range so that it will become impossible for players to track it. Plus making these diminishing returns steep enough, so that the whole process would not be worth being micromanaged while doing other activities.

    The whole point would be de-incetivizing players from spam crafting the new recipes at each "threshold" and making it more worth using the recipes only when they actually need the item, while also leaving the possibility of some "more realistic" spam crafting for min-maxers. In my eyes it would be worth salvaging that system, because crafters in general would have their own non-annoying immersive exclusive source of exp. Anyway not claiming any of these would fix it to perfection, but I think it's definitely not impossible to fix. The solutions one can find are the only limit.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by archergod View Post
    That is not a bug, but non functional entity. There is huge difference. Bugs are like misspell, or something not working as expected. RWG is rewritten for a18, so no in bug status for a17x
    .....

    Did you quote the wrong post? I did not say anything about bugs at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RipClaw View Post
    It makes a difference whether you are a single player or a group. You have to keep in mind that these players have to share the resources.

    Since zombies are no longer a source of bones, you have to be very methodical to get enough bones / glue / tape for a larger group. This includes utilizing the respawn and visiting POIs once a week that are known to contain a larger number of animals. For example the Doggos and "Carl's Corns and Bob's Boars".
    Meh, more payers means more people scaving. The problem is not that those resources are shared but rather if you are being economical with those resources or not. Go around blasting everything, you are going to have a tape and bullet problem. Use stone arrows and clubs, bones will never be an issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    I'm not going to say no.
    But we are not looking for what you are NOT going to say but rather what you actually said :P

    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    We have focus groups testing this so it will be better in A18.
    Good news. I still think Roland's idea on XP is the way to go - zeds should not be a resource.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    Probably why it's a mod and not vanilla. Couple that with the medieval mod or fantasy mod and you have a whole NEW game.

    Post was intended to celebrate the awesomeness of 7days modability, no need to bunch your underwear that tightly.
    And awesome it was. I would not have expected visuals like that to work in this game.

    And finally:



    LBD is D. E. A. D.

    End of story. It's not coming back. Why are we still reading LBDgate posts....

  3. #18
    Colony Founder KhaineGB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FA_Q2 View Post
    LBD is D. E. A. D.

    End of story. It's not coming back. Why are we still reading LBDgate posts....
    Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.

    I'm not asking TFP to bring it back, even though I feel it was a poor decision... Skyrim had it, as an example, and the only time I ever felt I needed to GRIND it in that game was literally the armor/weapon crafting.

    But it would be nice if TFP finished hooking up the code so skills were more than just a category sub-heading so we don't have to rely on cvars... which cause server issues... and DLL patches just to get it working.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhaineGB View Post
    Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.

    I'm not asking TFP to bring it back, even though I feel it was a poor decision... Skyrim had it, as an example, and the only time I ever felt I needed to GRIND it in that game was literally the armor/weapon crafting.

    But it would be nice if TFP finished hooking up the code so skills were more than just a category sub-heading so we don't have to rely on cvars... which cause server issues... and DLL patches just to get it working.
    +1 for modders.
    +2 for TFP making it possible.

  5. #20
    Colony Founder JaxTeller718's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhaineGB View Post
    Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.

    I'm not asking TFP to bring it back, even though I feel it was a poor decision... Skyrim had it, as an example, and the only time I ever felt I needed to GRIND it in that game was literally the armor/weapon crafting.

    But it would be nice if TFP finished hooking up the code so skills were more than just a category sub-heading so we don't have to rely on cvars... which cause server issues... and DLL patches just to get it working.
    I could not give you more of a standing ovation on this. There was no need for them to remove the coding to begin with. Keep it as an option for modders, With things being so mod friendly now why would you kill a tool we could have used to enhance the gameplay.

    And Khaine is 100 percent right. Literally the first thing people are excited to have back when they play our mods are the Action Skills. People want to shoot at a wall to level their pistol go ahead. YOU'RE the idiot wasting in game time. But 16 had it perfect. You could go kill zombies to level your weapon of choice OR you could spend a point or three and not worry about it. Why that was removed when you guys all but took care of spam crafting is beyond me. Spam crafting was no longer even part of the equation.

  6. #21
    Ranger danielspoa's Avatar
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    last time I talked about that people got crazy on me

    I don't know a single person that wanted that out of the game, but u know.. not much we can do at this point

  7. #22
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaxTeller718 View Post
    I could not give you more of a standing ovation on this. There was no need for them to remove the coding to begin with. Keep it as an option for modders, With things being so mod friendly now why would you kill a tool we could have used to enhance the gameplay.

    And Khaine is 100 percent right. Literally the first thing people are excited to have back when they play our mods are the Action Skills. People want to shoot at a wall to level their pistol go ahead. YOU'RE the idiot wasting in game time. But 16 had it perfect. You could go kill zombies to level your weapon of choice OR you could spend a point or three and not worry about it. Why that was removed when you guys all but took care of spam crafting is beyond me. Spam crafting was no longer even part of the equation.
    Fully agree.
    What I liked was that you had those LBD skills you were trying level up. If you were desperate, or the kind of person who thinks it's more fun to get points doing other things and applying them to whatever you wanted, you could invest into that LBD skill that way. Though, of course, this would be a poor choice because why waste points on something you could in fact, learn by doing.

    Isn't that always the argument though? LBD was boring, nobody wants to grind, it's more fun to invest points in whatever you want. Um, hello... we could do that. The grind is the same, it just favors a grind of zombie killing. Lastly, if I am gaining mining skill because I am mining... it couldn't be more obvious that I like to mine! Why would I grind mining if I didn't like to mine? How can I even call it grinding if I enjoy it and I would want points in it anyway? Makes no sense. But I'll tell you what the real problem was. The problem was you had to grind things to level up because of LEVEL GATES.... which have nothing to do with LBD. Notice level gates are going away soon. Why? Because they suck.

    People can continue to call LBD what they will... but I will always know that the LBD system of the past would have done great if only the stupid level gates were removed.

    EDIT: It's not even that I really care about LBD so much that I couldn't find enjoyment in some other system. What gets me heated is that people will blame LBD for their need to grind so much in the previous system. Few people will realize that the problem was the gates that would force people into doing things they didn't want to do.
    I am a big fan of playing a game the way you want to play it. However, this is a survival game. As a side note, there should be some things you need to do that you don't want to. This shouldn't be all fun and games. Sometimes the fun comes from completing things you hate because of the survival nature of the game., but being able to say you did it anyway... because you are a survivor.

    LBD WAS M.U.R.D.E.R.E.D.
    Last edited by AtomicUs5000; 05-02-2019 at 11:16 PM.

  8. #23
    Colony Founder RestInPieces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    LBD WAS M.U.R.D.E.R.E.D.

  9. #24
    Colon Pounder The Gronk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RestInPieces View Post
    <snipped for space>
    It's rare to see Roland, Trolland and Ronald in the same place together.

  10. #25
    Colony Founder Scyris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhaineGB View Post
    Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.

    I'm not asking TFP to bring it back, even though I feel it was a poor decision... Skyrim had it, as an example, and the only time I ever felt I needed to GRIND it in that game was literally the armor/weapon crafting.

    But it would be nice if TFP finished hooking up the code so skills were more than just a category sub-heading so we don't have to rely on cvars... which cause server issues... and DLL patches just to get it working.
    I liked it, and it makes more sense then magically learning how to be better at something by spending a point in it. I especally find the crafting perks stupid, you spend the point but they seem to pull this knowledge out of their ass on how to make this stuff. I mean the books in a16 made sense, spending a point then magically being able to build a car? just doesn't feel right.

    In other news, there a thread somewhere with a collection of answers devs have given to questions or about what will be in a18? as I don't feel like going thru this entire thread from page 1 to find the info. I know we got a new gun coming... not that I care though tbh, I bascally never use guns, to noisy, draws extra zombies that spawn in, the silencer in a17.2 is bascally worthless as it doesn't even work. I liked the one from valmod in a16, it made guns quiet enough that you could fire a shot or 2 in a poi without it waking everything up in the entire poi. Used to clean poi's with the sniper rifle without waking up a single zombie. Mind you even then, I mostly just used a bow/crossbow as it did the job just as well, and its ammo is bascally free.

  11. #26
    Colony Founder n2n1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    We're not getting rid of crucibles, but we might add mods to enhance workstations as well. Some gates, some mods. Not all gates like now. You'll get a forge and be able to do most anything slowly. With mods you will make less heat, smelt faster, and unlock steel with a crucible.
    interesting feature! I hope it will be!


    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    Yes level gates will be gone.

    I loved San Andreas. They ruined GTA for me in GTA 4 when they removed all the RPG progression that it had.
    this is to attract new players ?



    Quote Originally Posted by FA_Q2 View Post
    ///
    LBD is D. E. A. D.

    End of story. It's not coming back. Why are we still reading LBDgate posts....
    sometimes they come back....but they're not who they were

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Wow.... 3 hours without activity. Seems like it's time for 2 truths and a lie. One of the following statements is false but the others are true. See if you can guess...


    1) The forge is losing its tool slots for the anvil, crucible, and die set.
    2) "Forge Ahead" will be back but in a slightly different way.
    3) Sharp sticks are making a return but not like they were before.
    1 and 2 is true
    3 - even i can't get the Sharp sticks back, but i think about it every time...
    (but they still with us )
    I feel obligated to make them last forever.
    Last edited by n2n1; 05-03-2019 at 07:48 AM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhaineGB View Post
    Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.
    Sure there are. But there's a difference between requesting mod features to make that possible in mods and beating on the dead horse of LBD in vanilla. LBD is dead (in vanilla) and hallelujah.

  13. #28
    Colony Founder Lonestarcanuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    It severely limits player choice. Do anything fun get xp, buy what you want with that xp, not be locked into repetitive grindy actions that force you to do stupid things like get stabbed to improve your armor ability.
    I don't miss hugging a cactus with a stack of bandages

  14. #29
    Colony Founder RestInPieces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meganoth View Post
    TFP should also turn off that damn XP popup
    Amen brother. They definitely should.

    Quote Originally Posted by meganoth View Post
    PS: One other thought: People only playing for xp exist and TFP has to acount for them but they are probably not the target group they balance the game for.
    I don't think you should see these people as a group, not exactly at least. Surely there are people who enjoy some genres more than others. But the way you design the game plays a huge role in how people will play the game and which kinds of people will play the game. Whatever you incentivize, that's what players will do, that's how the game is going to be played (that is while they enjoy the game for whatever combinations of reasons/genres it has). So even if someone generally enjoys the game and doesn't enjoy XP grinding, you should expect him to grind if the game tells him to grind, until he stops enjoying the game, because it's rare to ignore the game's incentives (we mostly play games to release dat dopamine). And since grinding XP is best done by repeating an activity (that's why it's called grinding), it won't be long until literally anyone gets fed up with that.

    TLTR: In general I think that xp rewards should be balanced/time and be more of an activity's side-reward and not large enough to be the reason you do an activity (which is not the case right now), because this way tends to get boring faster whether one enjoys grinding XP or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonestarcanuck View Post
    I don't miss hugging a cactus with a stack of bandages
    Hmmm yea that's the LBD's fault and not because:
    -bandages weren't a real commodity (something doesn't have value if it grows on trees so why not abuse it).
    -continuous trauma didn't have any effects and even food healed you fully (like it has now with max health).
    -sources of damage weren't treated separately, so that a static minor source of damage didn't raise skills...
    Last edited by RestInPieces; 05-03-2019 at 01:37 PM.

  15. #30
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhaineGB View Post
    Given that folks like me keep modding it back in, and we're often complimented on the fact that it's back, I think we can say that there are players out there who enjoy it.

    I'm not asking TFP to bring it back, even though I feel it was a poor decision... Skyrim had it, as an example, and the only time I ever felt I needed to GRIND it in that game was literally the armor/weapon crafting.

    But it would be nice if TFP finished hooking up the code so skills were more than just a category sub-heading so we don't have to rely on cvars... which cause server issues... and DLL patches just to get it working.
    It would be even better if people took all their LBD disussion to the mod threads.

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