Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 110

Thread: Spoilage of building materials

  1. #1
    Zombie Hunter Dimpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    455
    Rep Power
    1

    Spoilage of building materials

    So, I understand that food spoilage is realistic in the sense that it is something that you see in the real world, but the link between that and better gameplay seems kind of tenuous. The biggest reason I see for adding it is it encourages players to continuously harvest food, rather than just stockpiling it. How does that make the game more fun though?

    If it does make the game more fun, Why not apply spoilage to other things too, such as building materials?

  2. #2
    Colony Founder RestInPieces's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    1,585
    Rep Power
    1
    Refer to Roland's post about what food spoilage does.

    Spoilage doesn't have the same effect wherever you apply it. If you apply it to food, as you said, it creates a sink, stops farming from becoming irrelevant and makes food something more other than "click me at fixed intervals" - it makes it a valuable resource that drives the player into making certain decisions.

    But if you apply it to building materials, it won't have the same effect (assuming you mean crafted blocks as well, because if it applied to materials only it wouldn't make much of a difference since the player would craft them to blocks asap).
    Unlike food, building materials MUST get stockpiled, simply because building is an activity which "has a duration" - it is continuous. Imagine if the player had to place (consume) a few blocks at a time - it would become annoying.

  3. #3
    Zombie Hunter Dimpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    455
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by RestInPieces View Post
    Unlike food, building materials MUST get stockpiled, simply because building is an activity which "has a duration" - it is continuous. Imagine if the player had to place (consume) a few blocks at a time - it would become annoying.
    How fast of spoilage are we talking? I was thinking something around a half-life of 6 days.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    On a Zipline
    Posts
    14,965
    Rep Power
    2
    Food spoilage adds to the feeling of "not enough time to do everything" which is another aspect of the game that needs some shoring up. Time as a currency is in too much supply right now and the game could use some mechanics to eat away at it so that the player is always needing to make decisions based on how much time will be spent.

    With spoilage, in the early game you have no way to stockpile so you have to eat everything you acquire rapidly. That means every day you have to spend some time working towards keeping yourself fed. That time competes for time you would spend doing other things. It also drives you to want to find/learn tech to be able to start stockpiling it better so that more of your day is freed up. This process of going from taking care of food needs daily to not needing to take care of food needs daily delivers a huge feeling of accomplishment and makes you feel you've reached a major milestone in moving from basic survival to being prosperous and thriving.

    Yes, some people will call that process tedious and a bunch of micromanagement and food simulator 2019 which is why it should be optional-- but certainly not absent.

    As for building materials there is already an agent of entropy for those-- Zombies. I suppose we could accomplish a bit of "spoilage" if zombies were attracted to destroying farms and containers holding food and campfires containing food. Maybe that could be a compromise if we can't get actual spoilage.
    Last edited by Roland; 05-07-2019 at 08:14 PM.

  5. #5
    Inventor AtomicUs5000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    US
    Posts
    934
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Food spoilage adds to the feeling of "not enough time to do everything" which is another aspect of the game that needs some shoring up. Time as a currency is in too much supply right now and the game could use some mechanics to eat away at it so that the player is always needing to make decisions based on how much time will be spent.
    I always thought so too. It's hard to wrap my head around though because of the current time settings. The "not enough time to do everything" concept would need to be independent of the game day.

    I always thought blood moon horde every 7 days could be a candidate for this and the day length just acts as a difficulty slider. The goal here being to prepare your base in time. Digging zombies solidified this candidacy, but since they added the ability to have BM daily, not to mention the BM avoidance issue in general, this candidate got thrown out the window.

    Maybe food spoilage isn't the best fit for this game, but there really should be more urgency--at least to the point where the decision to hide and wait somewhere throughout a night instead of risking it to accomplish something becomes a tough choice.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    On a Zipline
    Posts
    14,965
    Rep Power
    2
    For time to be a true expensive currency that is agonizing to spend there has to be a serious threat of death at the end of the timers. So food spoilage would require time spent gathering food or death. Blood moon requires time spent preparing or death. Infection requires time spent finding the cure or death. etc.

    Of course death needs to matter too. (cue Rest in Pieces)

  7. #7
    Colony Founder RestInPieces's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    1,585
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    For time to be a true expensive currency that is agonizing to spend there has to be a serious threat of death at the end of the timers. So food spoilage would require time spent gathering food or death. Blood moon requires time spent preparing or death. Infection requires time spent finding the cure or death. etc.

    Of course death needs to matter too. (cue Rest in Pieces)
    Definitely, if the end result (survival/death) doesn't matter, the actions that lead to it don't really matter much either.
    Will have to spam MM at some point for a DP option for A18.

  8. #8
    Ranger
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    341
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    I always thought so too. It's hard to wrap my head around though because of the current time settings. The "not enough time to do everything" concept would need to be independent of the game day.
    which is directly counter to the point of putting an adjustable game day as an option in the first place.

    Adjustable game day is a type of difficulty slider, it allows customization and picking how much the player wants TIME (as a resource) to be restricted.

    You don't give people the option to do something and then remove the impact of that option.

  9. #9
    Inventor AtomicUs5000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    US
    Posts
    934
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Limdood View Post
    which is directly counter to the point of putting an adjustable game day as an option in the first place.

    Adjustable game day is a type of difficulty slider, it allows customization and picking how much the player wants TIME (as a resource) to be restricted.

    You don't give people the option to do something and then remove the impact of that option.
    Let's look at hunger. Let's say if you play a game where days are 120 minutes long. You eat 10 times throughout the day. Now shrink the day to 30 minutes. Are you going to eat 10 times every 30 minutes? Hell no. This is why it must be independent.

  10. #10
    Tracker Lanadon Conners's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Oregon USA
    Posts
    167
    Rep Power
    1
    I am 100% all for adding a new "situation" for players to adapt and overcome and food resource management is a viable obstacle for a Survival game but at this stage of development I would rather have seen a lot more work on the other problem "Hurdles" that already exist.

    Elemental debuffs and their counters (Campfires actually warming you, Drinks like Coffee and Yucca juice returned), The Damned "Bleeding" debuff applied every 2nd hit, the unpopularity with current Mining resource gathering and a fully functional "perk" system; some of which directly affect food and water consumption and gathering.

    This isn't a complaint. Once it is dropped on us, I will start playing brand new games with the latest version and soldier on.. hopeful that there will be new food resources added like fishing and new farming, domesticated animals even ones captured in the wild and brought home, and an upgrade to the Electrical system for even minor refrigeration.

    With the new RWG still untested and it's resourse distribution unknown, it feels like you guys are hanging pictures on the second floor before the foundation is even dry.

    Ever Hopeful and loyal

  11. #11
    Zombie Hunter Dimpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    455
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    For time to be a true expensive currency that is agonizing to spend there has to be a serious threat of death at the end of the timers. So food spoilage would require time spent gathering food or death. Blood moon requires time spent preparing or death. Infection requires time spent finding the cure or death. etc.

    Of course death needs to matter too. (cue Rest in Pieces)
    Totally agree. Back when I first started playing, I thought the "race against time" was the central theme of the game. One of the things that made A17 less fun for me was that I had learned about gamestage on the forums between A16 and A17, and that really took away a lot of the time pressure.

  12. #12
    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,449
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    As for building materials there is already an agent of entropy for those-- Zombies. I suppose we could accomplish a bit of "spoilage" if zombies were attracted to destroying farms and containers holding food and campfires containing food. Maybe that could be a compromise if we can't get actual spoilage.
    I would love to see Zombies being able to trample crops as they did back in Alpha 9. It made for a positive game mechanic of having to strategically place and defend farms, rather than just putting them "anywhere".

  13. #13
    Reconstructionist Damocles's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    638
    Rep Power
    1
    A technical suggestion for food spoilage: instead of having each item have an atomic spoilage counter, make the spoilage an average of the stack of foods.

    Example: combining a stack of two fresh 100% eggs and two almost rotten 1% eggs would create a stack of four 50% eggs.

    Its not realistic but technically easier to handle than forcing each food item to be non stackable and having its own rot counter.

  14. #14
    Tracker mr.natural's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    France
    Posts
    160
    Rep Power
    0
    Only mixed concrete could spoil, would be a nice touch

  15. #15
    Reconstructionist
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    649
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.natural View Post
    Only mixed concrete could spoil, would be a nice touch
    Cement should not be stored for longer than 3 months as it draws moisture from the air and then hardens.
    Wood, on the other hand, lasts forever when stored dry. If you store it wet it can get rotten.

    Stone, clay and sand should be storable indefinitely. Unless you play over a period of 100000 years or so.

    Generally such a system would be quite interesting but the periods must be right. Otherwise you have a lot of micromanagement in the game and some players don't like that.
    Last edited by RipClaw; 05-08-2019 at 08:08 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •