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Thread: Anybody else annoyed with the AI?

  1. #16
    Leader Fox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khulkhuum View Post
    If a newbie can find a "perfect base" design, so can anyone else...
    If referring to my post... to be fair, she stole the idea from some youtuber.

  2. #17
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    This one I do agree on the AI being too smart for its own good. I can't call the trap door method an exploit because its not exactly a foreign concept in reality and trap doors have been used in existence since ancient times. But the AI is such that its reading the hatch as a full block and thus they will think that its a viable path to get to us.

    Its a real simple way to build an invulnerable base in essence but it defeats the purpose of having the various traps in the game then. I don't mind having a simple maze but I'd definitely want a door at the end as a last resort to stop the Zeds from coming into my base. But the coding now is such that if you put a door and close it, they'd immediately consider the base as completely closed off and just start bashing on everything. The maze becomes useless then. But if we leave the door open, they see it as a clear path and just go through the maze. It makes the whole thing seem very counter-intuitive if that's the case.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by n2n1 View Post
    yeah.....but...no one mentioned or prepared they were not normal zombies, we think they're - ordinary.
    At least it's not obvious, and so it can't be an explanation.

    Perhaps their reaction to the pain indicates this, but it also looks - ridiculous. Just.... it's "unnatural" .
    There is somewhat of a lore for 7d2d
    About radiation and stuff.
    There is even something about the chemtower (that huge poi with loads of zombies chillin behind glass) trying to create a chemical to enhance soldiers, accidentially creating the "behemoth" that was never implemented (that is why there is a giant hule in the side)

    So we know they are not traditional zombies. But yeah until the official "campaign" comes out, new players dont know

  4. #19
    Survivor ZehMatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    2. it is a technical limitation. As this is a voxel game, more than 10-30 zombies at once are breaking most computers.
    So if it really was hordes of stupid zombies, then yes they would be too intelligent.
    But to remain a threat with the numbercount that we CAN have, they need to be more intelligent.
    Theres no such thing as a technical limitation because its using voxels, that makes no sense, the voxels will turn into a mesh for rendering and "hopefully" into an optimized collider for physics, I've worked with voxels in Unity and UE4 and I can assure you that they are not the reason for the lack of zombies. Their animations and movement has a bigger toll than basic path finding if that is what you are talking about, but there are ways to still have 1000+ zombies around, one such example is instancing animations ( https://blogs.unity3d.com/2018/04/16...dmeshrenderer/ ) Its just how far you are willing to go with optimizations.

    While I love the concept of 7DTD the execution is pretty terrible imho, thats primarily the reason why I mess around with game engines such as Unity and UE4 just to see if I can replicate specific components because that allows me to prove my point easily with evidence.

  5. #20
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    Faatal has said the ai will not be changing much if at all for a18 since he has been working on bug fixes optimization and other things but will change eventually.

  6. #21
    Reconstructionist Khulkhuum's Avatar
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    FPS on my PC gets boggled down when the number of entities range from 50 to 75 (depending on the type), whereas zombie cops need less numbers to start my FPS sift away fast. I tested this for the sake of checking how many Zs i can have active at a time and this also was confirmed with spawning around 75 rabbits (FPS dropped).

    I can imagine people with worse processors, graphic cards, less RAM and slower disks (i'm using a seperate SSD for bigger games and for my system, things going fast this way) can have a harder time this way. One thing i would want to check in the future is lowering the graphics settings so it runs as fast as possible and then seeing how many Zs can be spawned without huge FPS drops.

    And if you're wondering what i mean FPS drops, it was from a stable over 30 to below 20 and sometimes down to 10.

  7. #22
    Colony Founder Cadamier's Avatar
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    Something many people either don't know or forget if they do know... TFP has said that A17 was a complete re-write of the game.

    Let me emphasize that again: "A17 was a complete re-write of the game."
    They also said that with the allotted time they had (to get A17 out) they did the best they could, got everything the best it could be basically. This is why we have Doctorates of Engineering as Zeds!


    But with that comes the facts and experiences they have in moving forward. With that also includes a tonne of things least us forget that basically we're back at alpha 1 with a tonne of experience and everything else so progression should be a bit faster. Someone else noted that this current version of the AI is for the bandits... If/when we do get them OH S!!!!! lol

    Yeah! They are annoying! We're doing our best to deal with them... But just imagine having to fight with Bandits with the current or 'better AI.' Oh MY!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadamier View Post
    Something many people either don't know or forget if they do know... TFP has said that A17 was a complete re-write of the game.

    Let me emphasize that again: "A17 was a complete re-write of the game."
    I don't think a complete rewrite is what you think it means
    I very VERY probably was just a fixing of code because they used new graphics and some physics interactions.
    But they didnt program the game again Thats not how you do things
    Obviously they had to do a complete "rewrite" with perks and projectiles but the base code is still more or less the same

  9. #24
    Inventor JCrook1028's Avatar
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    Actually no, Madmole has said that a lot of the base code was indeed rewritten. That's a lot of what Faatal is doing, fixing old nasty base code with newer better base code.

  10. #25
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    What i don´t get is, why do they attack ramps so hard? Even when they need to turn away from you to do so? I have a ramp for the drawbridge and they love beating it. Turning their backs on me and even walking away from me to do so.

    Also they still circle. Not around one thing all the time, but like at every 3rd grass block, or small tree or w/e they do a circle or two around before they continue to come towards me.
    Last edited by pApA^LeGBa; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:24 PM.

  11. #26
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    Ai is not right at all

    Pathing, is ridiculous, they are mindless zombies!! Not mathematical geniuses they are brain dead that want to eat yours, and should go straight for you and not suddenly discover that have the brain power of Einstein and figure out a maze of spikes

    Or think about

    “well I can't get him up there, but have just worked out, If I make a mental blueprint of this structure, and eradicate the 4 pillars, calculating that if I can remove that block that is nowhere near, my intended brain feed, I will be able to get my breakfast, even tho I shouldn’t be thinking in this way as I'm a mindless zombie”

  12. #27
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Data View Post
    Ai is not right at all

    Pathing, is ridiculous, they are mindless zombies!! Not mathematical geniuses they are brain dead that want to eat yours, and should go straight for you and not suddenly discover that have the brain power of Einstein and figure out a maze of spikes

    Or think about

    “well I can't get him up there, but have just worked out, If I make a mental blueprint of this structure, and eradicate the 4 pillars, calculating that if I can remove that block that is nowhere near, my intended brain feed, I will be able to get my breakfast, even tho I shouldn’t be thinking in this way as I'm a mindless zombie”
    It’s an illusion that you’ve convinced yourself is true. There is zero coding that directs zombies to target only load bearing supports. What the code actually does direct them to do is:

    1) Path to you via the cheapest route possible.

    2) Attack random nearby blocks when there is no possible path to you

    and

    3) Randomly sometimes abandon long paths and start attacking random nearby blocks.

    Now if you have built a stilt base so that there are only a few nearby supports and they are all load bearing then, ya, they are going to bring you down. But sitting on the roof of a Working Stiffs store and then going down and surveying the damage the next day you will see the damage is random and not specifically targeting load bearing walls as an engineer would.

    The pathing code only calculates the relative costs of all possible paths to you and sets the zombie on the cheapest one. It does NOT tell the zombies that this support column vs that support column will completely wreck the SI of your base.
    Last edited by Roland; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:09 AM.

  13. #28
    Ranger bdubyah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    It’s an illusion that you’ve convinced yourself is true. There is zero coding that directs zombies to target only load bearing supports. What the code actually does direct them to do is:

    1) Path to you via the cheapest route possible.

    2) Attack random nearby blocks when there is no possible path to you

    and

    3) Randomly sometimes abandon long paths and start attacking random nearby blocks.

    Now if you have built a stilt base so that there are only a few nearby supports and they are all load bearing then, ya, they are going to bring you down. But sitting on the roof of a Working Stiffs store and then going down and surveying the damage the next day you will see the damage is random and not specifically targeting load bearing walls as an engineer would.

    The pathing code only calculates the relative costs of all possible paths to you and sets the zombie on the cheapest one. It does NOT tell the zombies that this support column vs that support column will completely wreck the SI of your base.
    You get out of here with your facts, pal!

  14. #29
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    THere is a path to me at my base and still they attack random blocks. It´s 5 rows of spikes and a wall of steel pillars that is in their way. Yet they hit the ramp aka random blocks. So it doesn´t really work that way in reality.

  15. #30
    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pApA^LeGBa View Post
    THere is a path to me at my base and still they attack random blocks. It´s 5 rows of spikes and a wall of steel pillars that is in their way. Yet they hit the ramp aka random blocks. So it doesn´t really work that way in reality.
    And it's a good thing to - now, I don't how much randomness Fataal has already built into it, but as I understand it, there'll be more to come in later Alpha's making predicting a zombie path with absolute certainty an impossible task in future, since they will at random points abandon even a reasonable path to go and rage against the nearest block. That to me, will be a great thing when its fully developed, because it'll put paid to simple "funnel zombies to Room Of Doom" type base setups.

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