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Thread: A solution to the "Run away from hordes" problem.

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    Reconstructionist Dimpy's Avatar
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    Lightbulb A solution to the "Run away from hordes" problem.

    The idea: During the blood moon, zombies that are in total darkness move MUCH faster. Like 10x faster.

    What this does:
    Running away from the horde is a lot harder. If you carry a light source, the zombies won't instantly catch up to you, but they will always be on your heels.
    Players are encouraged to stay at their base because it's a lot safer.
    Lighting up your base actually has positive gameplay benefits, so there's less temptation to forgo light sources and turn up the gamma.

    What are the downsides?
    Last edited by Roland; 2 Weeks Ago at 04:33 PM. Reason: for the L of it...

  2. #2
    Reconstructionist Dimpy's Avatar
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    Hey guys, we already have an active thread for the generic "keeping players from avoiding horde night is pointless" debate. If you could focus on the specific subject at hand, that would be great.

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    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimpy View Post
    Hey guys, we already have an active thread for the generic "keeping players from avoiding horde night is pointless" debate. If you could focus on the specific subject at hand, that would be great.
    Well, if the point isn't to stop players from avoiding the Horde, what is it then Dimpy?

    I ask that sincerely, cause, yeah, this thread is duplicating another one, so I'll merge them unless there's some different aspect to your thread (which I'm missing).

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    Reconstructionist Dimpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzHawkeye View Post
    Well, if the point isn't to stop players from avoiding the Horde, what is it then Dimpy?

    I ask that sincerely, cause, yeah, this thread is duplicating another one, so I'll merge them unless there's some different aspect to your thread (which I'm missing).
    I was hoping it would be more about how this specific fix (light vs zombie speed) would have negative effects on the gameplay or game feel, not on whether horde fixes in general are a bad idea.

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    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimpy View Post
    I was hoping it would be more about how this specific fix (light vs zombie speed) would have negative effects on the gameplay or game feel, not on whether horde fixes in general are a bad idea.
    Ok, now worries Dimpy. Let's amscray the Horde avoidance talk. :-) Horde avoidance posts moved to https://7daystodie.com/forums/showth...-m-wrong/page3

    Ok, so back in regular forum Joe mode, I think I can see one issue here.

    If darkness speeds up zombies, what do players do before they can rig an electrical system up? Keep in mind, torches generate heat, so dropping them all over the place could have some unhappy side effects to.
    Last edited by OzHawkeye; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:31 AM.

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    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    The darkness causing zombies to run fast was a major component of earlier alphas.

    I don't know why that was changed.
    I suspect that it looked weird when zombies would come in and out of dark buildings... but not certain about that.

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    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    The darkness causing zombies to run fast was a major component of earlier alphas.

    I don't know why that was changed.
    I suspect that it looked weird when zombies would come in and out of dark buildings... but not certain about that.
    True, and there's definitely some appeal to the idea. Unfortunately I joined after that was edited out (it was VERY early Alphas), but it'd be fun to have a "zombies walk in light, run in dark" mode - but then, I think you'd have to remove the HeatMap element from torches.

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    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    I think it was driven directly by the light values, independent of the heat map. So they would be running, then suddenly stop the moment they exited a doorway. Really, I think all they needed was a good animator to build some transitions. They have someone who is working on the "mantis shrimp", so now might be a good time to bring it up.

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    Reconstructionist Dimpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzHawkeye View Post
    Ok, so back in regular forum Joe mode, I think I can see one issue here.

    If darkness speeds up zombies, what do players do before they can rig an electrical system up? Keep in mind, torches generate heat, so dropping them all over the place could have some unhappy side effects to.
    The Aoe of torches would have to be pretty big. Maybe in a 5m radius they would slow zombies down the maximum amount, and at 20m they have no effect. There certainly would be a trade-off between keeping a large base well-lit for horde night and keeping a base that doesn't attract screamers, but I don't see anything wrong with that. It's certainly better than torches purely being negative.

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    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    I think it was driven directly by the light values, independent of the heat map. So they would be running, then suddenly stop the moment they exited a doorway. Really, I think all they needed was a good animator to build some transitions. They have someone who is working on the "mantis shrimp", so now might be a good time to bring it up.
    Yes, I knew it was driven by the light values, the point about the Heat Map I meant is that if you had this sort of mode, you'd need to remove the Heat Map element from torches, so that placing lots of those didn't induce "Perpetual Screamer Syndrome", since until the player advance enough to make an electrical system, torches would be their only way to generate light to slow the Zombies down.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimpy View Post
    The Aoe of torches would have to be pretty big. Maybe in a 5m radius they would slow zombies down the maximum amount, and at 20m they have no effect. There certainly would be a trade-off between keeping a large base well-lit for horde night and keeping a base that doesn't attract screamers, but I don't see anything wrong with that. It's certainly better than torches purely being negative.
    Yeah, that could be another way, leave the Torches heat map element in, but increase their area of lighting effect massively.

  11. #11
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimpy View Post
    The Aoe of torches would have to be pretty big. Maybe in a 5m radius they would slow zombies down the maximum amount, and at 20m they have no effect. There certainly would be a trade-off between keeping a large base well-lit for horde night and keeping a base that doesn't attract screamers, but I don't see anything wrong with that. It's certainly better than torches purely being negative.
    Also, I think it might help bring some more incentive to working with electricity if keeping well lit is a must but using too many torches is bad. Not that it's bad to avoid it, but it's always good when all of the content gets touched.

  12. #12
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzHawkeye View Post
    Yes, I knew it was driven by the light values, the point about the Heat Map I meant is that if you had this sort of mode, you'd need to remove the Heat Map element from torches, so that placing lots of those didn't induce "Perpetual Screamer Syndrome", since until the player advance enough to make an electrical system, torches would be their only way to generate light to slow the Zombies down.
    Ah ok. Well, I don't know how bad that would be though. If you managed to build a massive base that requires a screamer-worthy amount of torches (assuming that for some reason you need every square inch of it covered), you have probably reached the point of being able to use electricity. I never really paid attention to when I am capable in relation to my base size.

  13. #13
    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    Ah ok. Well, I don't know how bad that would be though. If you managed to build a massive base that requires a screamer-worthy amount of torches (assuming that for some reason you need every square inch of it covered), you have probably reached the point of being able to use electricity. I never really paid attention to when I am capable in relation to my base size.
    Probably true, perhaps the Heat map element to torches would need only be tweaked a little, or the area of effect increased as Dimpy suggested.

    Either way, having a "walk in light, run in dark" zombie mode would be fun to have again, but I doubt we'll see it. Still, one can hope.

  14. #14
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    The thing that might deter them now from such a thing are the options. The option to turn off run in the dark can have a different meaning in the context of zombies run at night. If you have no run in dark, but run at night, does this mean they run or no? It would be weird if you had it set to run at night, but no run in dark and it resulted in them walking around outside, but once they got into your well-lit base, they started running (because it's night).

  15. #15
    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    The thing that might deter them now from such a thing are the options. The option to turn off run in the dark can have a different meaning in the context of zombies run at night. If you have no run in dark, but run at night, does this mean they run or no? It would be weird if you had it set to run at night, but no run in dark and it resulted in them walking around outside, but once they got into your well-lit base, they started running (because it's night).
    One of the reasons I doubt we'll see it - the more options in a game, the more that has to be tested, and not just more, but exponentially more unfortunately. Doubling the number of options results in far more than doubling the number of combinations that have to be tested for.

    Still, it'd be nice to see such an option, but yeah, probably not going to.

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