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Thread: Amazing Gimmick. Well done.

  1. #16
    Hunter Cernwn's Avatar
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    @Wyrda78:
    Gonna take a hard pass on reverting my heavily modded game build to test out your seed. Instead, I will just take you at your word that there is zero warning and little to no time to react to that particular trap with reflexes. Hopefully this was just an oopsie by whichever dev is giving all the POIs the dungeon treatment, and NOT malicious removal of player agency. Removal of player agency is always a bad move for game developers (see criteria #1-3 in link below):

    https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questi...is-it-good-for

    Remember that this is a destructible voxel-based game. We can go over, under, around or through most challenges.
    Last edited by Cernwn; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:28 PM.

  2. #17
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    It seems to be an oversight by the devs, especially considering that the rest of floor is concrete but the drop-through floor is made of wood. I realise now that it's my fault that I died since I could have just polled out there at the get-go. But this instance of fall-through floors was definitely over the top and contrived.

  3. #18
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    People defending this is why I gave up on this forum.
    Don't even try to give advice from a game development standpoint.
    The people who tried already left for the most part (Rest in pieces is only in the Dev Diary, everyone else I know is gone)

    don't waste your time trying to reason with them.

    It doesn't matter that you didn't say that you dislike dying.
    It doesn't matter that you criticise the unfairness, not the outcome.
    It doesn't matter that the RNG might f*** you over, breaks your legs and spawns feral footballers around you, giving you no chance to survive.

    All that matters is that they had fun while doing it, so its obviously a good design.
    This is the logic of people who do not want to see the bigger picture.
    "I liked it so everyone criticising it must just get gud"

    I liked that last resort thingy. Doesn't mean it is good design.

    One last time:
    Good design is fair. Challenging as much as you want, but fair. That is why Dark Souls has at least one part (didnt really play it that much, not my type of game. I like games without invincibility frames) that I know of that has bad design:
    A ball of death with no warning whatsoever instantly killing you if you don't know its coming.
    But while in Dark Souls, deaths don't really mean anything and are part of the progression, 7D2D punishes you for dying, so it is NOT a good thing to have random "gotcha" moments if it isn't somewhat telegraphed.
    A burnt house can collaps. Good obvious sign.
    A concrete skyscraper having a random deathpit in it, is not.
    A crane with mines on top, is not.
    A perfectly fine building having zombies within the walls, is not.

    But oh well... I have better things to do... like talking to a wall. At least that reflects my soundwaves, producing at least SOMETHING sensible.

  4. #19
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    But you didn't die from the fall so it wasn't an instant kill the player from the developers. You died from the zombies that woke up in the pit where you fell. I have fallen into similar pits and was able to narrowly escape and the feeling was not one of rage. It was exhilaration. So the trap is fair as long as you think fast and escape from the pit before the zombies can get you.

    Let's talk about developer created means that would allow you to get out of that situation alive:

    1) Perking into stealth so that nothing wakes up in that pit when you fall
    2) Carrying ladders or frames on your belt to quickly get yourself elevated out of the pit after falling
    3) Perking into parkour to make sure you don't take fall damage or sprain your leg and become more mobile with jumping
    4) Wearing heavy armor and increasing your HP to increase your ability to take hits and avoid stuns to possibly dispatch all the zombies below

    You even said that you will start carrying frames to nerdpole out of there if it happens again so you intuitively know that there is a way to counteract the death. Since the fall itself isn't deadly it is fair. It leads to a life and death situation that CAN be mitigated.

    Now you can continue to accuse me of playing on easy mode and accuse the devs of trying to kill you on purpose because your ego can't take a death that is your own fault but all that does is keep you from learning how to play better the next time. <shrug>

  5. #20
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    People defending this is why I gave up on this forum.
    Obviously not and welcome back.

  6. #21
    Leader Fox's Avatar
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    I think the OP is partially right about the trapped floors with no indication of collapse is a bit lame. There should always be an indication that the floor may be unstable. But for me, the unstable floors don't bother me nearly as much as those damn invisible land mines in key places that force a cheap death upon you. Like that time there was a bunch of landmines on top of a crane where you couldn't see it and would never consider predicting a landmine placed miles up in the sky like that, but sure enough, instant death the moment you go near it. I don't know if it's still like that as I chose to avoid them forever since then cuz the reward for getting all the way up there sucked anyways.
    Last edited by Fox; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:08 PM.

  7. #22
    Inventor JCrook1028's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrda78 View Post
    What am I supposed to do. Be more careful? I can't just spend the game inching along all surfaces that I have no good reason to suspect will cave in. If I did the game would be extremely boring.
    You now have a reason to suspect the floor may cave in.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I think the OP is partially right about the trapped floors with no indication of collapse is a bit lame. There should always be an indication that the floor may be unstable.
    If this bothers you then what do you say about the shelves that kill you when you stand on them?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Like that time there was a bunch of landmines on top of a crane where you couldn't see it and would never consider predicting a landmine placed miles up in the sky like that, but sure enough, instant death the moment you go near it. I don't know if it's still like that as I chose to avoid them forever since then cuz the reward for getting all the way up there sucked anyways.
    The mine on the crane is even more dangerous now. If it explodes now, half the crane will collapse. If you have the misfortune to stand on the boom of the crane when the mine explodes then you hopefully have a parachute.

  10. #25
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Why would anyone setting a landmine do it in a place and in a way to allow their intended victim a chance to see it and avoid it first? Seems like logical placement to me. The difference is that we get a second and third and fourth chance to come back because it is a game.

  11. #26
    Zombie Hunter Exxodous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Like that time there was a bunch of landmines on top of a crane where you couldn't see it
    You can in fact see it....I did and avoided it...

    My son on the other hand didn't and it was HILARIOUS!!

    Great job Fun Pimps in my opinion.

  12. #27
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Why would anyone setting a landmine do it in a place and in a way to allow their intended victim a chance to see it and avoid it first? Seems like logical placement to me. The difference is that we get a second and third and fourth chance to come back because it is a game.
    Just to expand on this....what about when bandits come out? If they shoot at us from behind cover, try to outflank us when in groups, or shoot at us without whistling or giving some sign they are there when we donít notice them first ó will we get people asking for ďfairĒ bandits?

    When the game places obvious clues for the player to notice that is more offensive to immersion than a landmine I didnít see or a section of flooring that suddenly collapses.

    The OP didnít even die from the fall caused by the floor collapse. He died because he didnít have ladders or frames on his belt which he, himself, figured he would make sure to have the next time.

    I guarantee that if this happens again and, better prepared, the OP manages to narrowly escape death and experiences the adrenaline of extricating himself from the trap successfully he will be smiling at the thrill of it all and the story heíll be able to tell. Without potential lethality in the game there are no potential thrilling narrow escapes.

  13. #28
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrda78 View Post
    Did you read the things I wrote? Go see it yourself and see how obvious it is to you.

    Now indeed I will make sure to have frames in my tab to quickpole out of there. I didn't realise I had to be prepared for nonsense gimmicks by the developers.
    Umm. I do play this game. I don't just sit here harassing pimp victims.
    Well I can't really explain it, but you just "know" the moment you enter an area. I guess if you can say to yourself, "hey, this looks like a good place for a giant hole", it probably is.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Just to expand on this....what about when bandits come out? If they shoot at us from behind cover, try to outflank us when in groups, or shoot at us without whistling or giving some sign they are there when we don’t notice them first — will we get people asking for “fair” bandits?

    When the game places obvious clues for the player to notice that is more offensive to immersion than a landmine I didn’t see or a section of flooring that suddenly collapses.

    The OP didn’t even die from the fall caused by the floor collapse. He died because he didn’t have ladders or frames on his belt which he, himself, figured he would make sure to have the next time.

    I guarantee that if this happens again and, better prepared, the OP manages to narrowly escape death and experiences the adrenaline of extricating himself from the trap successfully he will be smiling at the thrill of it all and the story he’ll be able to tell. Without potential lethality in the game there are no potential thrilling narrow escapes.
    So...Can we have a bigger tool belt? I love the additional WTF moments myself, keep it up. I also play dead is dead and enjoy the times where the game throws a curveball at me. Oh, and Roland's Oxp mod with the epic cities mod is fantastic.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I think the OP is partially right about the trapped floors with no indication of collapse is a bit lame. There should always be an indication that the floor may be unstable. But for me, the unstable floors don't bother me nearly as much as those damn invisible land mines in key places that force a cheap death upon you. Like that time there was a bunch of landmines on top of a crane where you couldn't see it and would never consider predicting a landmine placed miles up in the sky like that, but sure enough, instant death the moment you go near it. I don't know if it's still like that as I chose to avoid them forever since then cuz the reward for getting all the way up there sucked anyways.
    The first falling floor surprises you, also the first landmine, but then you know about them and play knowing the risk .When i see a wooden floor, i always hit it with my axe to see if it will collapse or not, when i open a door i think about a landmine.
    Stop complaining about features most of us like.

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