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Thread: Ouch PCGamer.com!

  1. #16
    Colony Founder Viktoriusiii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ti2xGr View Post
    It's in Alpha. It ISN'T finished. It should feel unfinished...because it is. I don't know what game you're playing, but I've seen progress where it needs to be and it is heading in the right direction. There's a difference between "progress" and stopping growth on an older engine and build it again in a new engine so the feature list of what they want can be put in and still be relevant. Things are being knocked off the "to do" list. Once again, not sure what you expect with a game in ALPHA. <- scratches head. I bought a game that hasn't finished development and is still in "rough stage" (alpha). I expect it be finished....sigh.
    Again. I wasnt saying there was no progress beeing made.
    But let me give you a metaphor (yes yes I can taste the cake and take small parts of it home and stuff:
    Suppose I was a baker.
    You are a customer and you want a special cake.
    I tell you that I can't make exact statements when it will be finished, so you go and look up an "industry standard" which varies based on complexity and amount of ressources, but you see 2-7 weeks.
    Now after 2 weeks you come by my bakery and you see the base of the cake, and are quite confused. I tell you "its just not finished yet! It takes a while for such a complex cake".
    So you go, trusting it will be done.
    After 7 weeks you come by again and you see some extra glace and some fruits on it.
    You ask me why its not finished and I tell you that "I told you there is no exact time it will be done"
    so you ask for a date now that so much time has passed. And I tell you "maybe between 4-6 weeks" and you are outraged, because this is sooo much longer than it should be.
    I tell you that quality takes time, so you leave and come back 4 weeks later.
    It has has all the different ingredients in and most of it is decorated, but you say that you are going to remove some stuff and add it back in a little different later...
    (yes yes I can taste the cake and take small parts of it home and stuff but its just a metaphor not a 1:1 example)

    Cutting that story short: at what point is "I didnt give an exact date" not a valid argument anymore?
    Industry standart for EA games is ~3 years. This game has been in development for about 6 and there is an A18 and probably an A19 coming and then the release after which they will still add content.


    The problem is not that they aren't working on it or that they are "lazy".
    And I personally don't mind it too much, but I understand the argument:
    WHEN is too much time spent on developing so that it is reasonable to complain?

  2. #17
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cadamier View Post
    This is exactly why early access titles should not be reviewed. The game is significantly different than it was back then and whether some would quibble about it being better or worse the point is that the article no longer applies to what we have now. PC Gamer made a mistake with that article but they can make good on it by re-reviewing 7 Days once it is finished.

  3. #18
    Hunter Ti2xGr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    Again. I wasnt saying there was no progress beeing made.
    But let me give you a metaphor (yes yes I can taste the cake and take small parts of it home and stuff:
    Suppose I was a baker.
    You are a customer and you want a special cake.
    I tell you that I can't make exact statements when it will be finished, so you go and look up an "industry standard" which varies based on complexity and amount of ressources, but you see 2-7 weeks.
    Now after 2 weeks you come by my bakery and you see the base of the cake, and are quite confused. I tell you "its just not finished yet! It takes a while for such a complex cake".
    So you go, trusting it will be done.
    After 7 weeks you come by again and you see some extra glace and some fruits on it.
    You ask me why its not finished and I tell you that "I told you there is no exact time it will be done"
    so you ask for a date now that so much time has passed. And I tell you "maybe between 4-6 weeks" and you are outraged, because this is sooo much longer than it should be.
    I tell you that quality takes time, so you leave and come back 4 weeks later.
    It has has all the different ingredients in and most of it is decorated, but you say that you are going to remove some stuff and add it back in a little different later...
    (yes yes I can taste the cake and take small parts of it home and stuff but its just a metaphor not a 1:1 example)

    Cutting that story short: at what point is "I didnt give an exact date" not a valid argument anymore?
    Industry standart for EA games is ~3 years. This game has been in development for about 6 and there is an A18 and probably an A19 coming and then the release after which they will still add content.


    The problem is not that they aren't working on it or that they are "lazy".
    And I personally don't mind it too much, but I understand the argument:
    WHEN is too much time spent on developing so that it is reasonable to complain?
    It is very clear that the development team for this game are working hard and within reason for the size of their team. It isn't reasonable to complain about the development time...at all. They're working on it and working toward a finished project. We should be completely satisfied that it is on course for completion.

  4. #19
    Colony Founder Viktoriusiii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ti2xGr View Post
    It is very clear that the development team for this game are working hard and within reason for the size of their team. It isn't reasonable to complain about the development time...at all. They're working on it and working toward a finished project. We should be completely satisfied that it is on course for completion.
    Well... that is your opinion and you have the right to have that opinion
    I can tell you that I got an F (A 6 in my school system) for my art project, if I didn't finish it on time. No matter how beautiful or how hard I worked on it. And I worked really hard on some.
    As I said, I don't really mind. But there is an argument to be made, that 2 overhauls of the graphics and 2 overhaul/reverts of the character progression and what feels like 100 overhauls of the crafting system are NOT ideal project management.
    Yes they experimented and I personally (again) don't mind too much. BUT there is an argument (a valid one at that) to be made, that they don't know what they want and therefor draw out the development time unnecessarily.

    If that is their way of doing things, that is their descicion. That does NOT however, make them immune from criticism.

    [Removed public discussion of moderation actions]
    Last edited by Roland; 07-10-2019 at 09:05 PM. Reason: rule violation

  5. #20
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    You seem to mind. Quite a bit actually.

    Here's another headline you can discuss since you are into old news...

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-survival-game

    Oh NOES!!!!
    It's in its final hours.

    Hope they make their stretch goals!!!!!

  6. #21
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ti2xGr View Post
    It is very clear that the development team for this game are working hard and within reason for the size of their team. It isn't reasonable to complain about the development time...at all. They're working on it and working toward a finished project. We should be completely satisfied that it is on course for completion.
    This is the only metric that matters. They haven't abandoned the game. Even during A17 development which took 1.5 years they were showing videos, screenshots, and updating us with new information regularly. Why some people want this game to reach a halt on new content all so they can call it done is beyond me.

  7. #22
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Hope they make their stretch goals!!!!!
    Yes, including the "Acid-puking Hulk" whose vomit can melt blocks.

  8. #23
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    Yes, including the "Acid-puking Hulk" whose vomit can melt blocks.
    The Hawaiian shirt zombie the cop and the biker and the fat mama are all considered hulk sized zombies as opposed to the normal sized zombies. Since the cop does indeed puke block melting acid they reached that goal early on.

  9. #24
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The Hawaiian shirt zombie the cop and the biker and the fat mama are all considered hulk sized zombies as opposed to the normal sized zombies. Since the cop does indeed puke block melting acid they reached that goal early on.
    Oh I know. Thatís just my fav part of the video... it makes me laugh every time, though I donít really know why. I guess it just sounds silly to me.

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