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Thread: Weekend Arguments

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PO_Man_3849 View Post
    From what most people who are in favor of this mechanic are suggesting, if you are maybe a little too far from your base and enroute back to your base as BM hits, your transportation will stop working, your base and all storage chests and workstations will be destroyed, and you will have to start over from scratch the next day.
    Why would they attack your storage chests when all they care about is your brain ?

    And how can they attack your storage chests, those are not even "loaded" into the game when you are away from your base.
    Last edited by meganoth; 07-13-2019 at 02:37 AM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    ...

    Still, swimming all night is a bigger problem than nerdpoling to roofs. Like stamina, there should be an endurance effect that kicks in when you tread water. If you tread too long, you get tired and sink.
    Add Alligators? ...Zombie Piranha?

    Last edited by Sigil_Thane; 07-13-2019 at 02:50 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    People like me are not caring about what other people do.
    What we want is for us to have challenges to face if we try to do such things, because that's how we want to play our game.
    There are 1,726 different settings to make your game easier. There are zero settings to give us our game.
    If you feel like it is cheesy, don't do it.

    I have known that you could ride all night or tread water for several alphas, but simply choose to fight my horde nights.

    You should not need some outside restraint to keep you from "cheating" the blood moon if you do not find it to be fun. No need to waste dev time engineering new penalties.
    Last edited by Grue; 07-13-2019 at 02:48 AM.

  4. #19
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grue View Post
    If you feel like it is cheesy, don't do it.
    I have known that you could ride all night or tread water for several alphas, but simply choose to fight my horde nights.
    You should not need some outside restraint to keep you from "cheating" the blood moon if you do not find it to be fun. No need to waste dev time engineering new penalties.
    Why is stopping someone from playing the game the way they want to a good argument on the one side but not the other?
    You are suggesting I pretend that horde night doesn't have major flaws. I don't find that to be the definition of a challenge, let alone that of an actual game. You might think by telling me or others to just do so is a reasonable response, but understand that you only say this from the perspective of someone who doesn't care.
    I've played pretend for a long time too. It's lost its charm and alpha stage is nearing the end. It is my opinion, and apparently also that of the team, that the Blood Moon horde feature is not fully realized yet due to these issues.

    Regarding dev time, I have previously expressed my thoughts on that...
    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    I don't see improving the BM as a waste of developer resources. I've worked on large projects with millions of lines of code for several years. What would be a waste is when you work on some major feature for years and never complete it. Whether it was time constraints, the budget, or beyond the capabilities of yourself or your team, even settling for something lesser than what you were aiming for over years of time with thousands or person-hours invested would be a waste. If one person working on it for another 500 hours brought that vision to life, it's a good 500 hours.
    Not to mention, the fact that they are acknowledging these loopholes is evidence to me that they care about the state of this feature and it is not fully where they want it to be.

  5. #20
    Leader Tin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grue View Post
    If you feel like it is cheesy, don't do it.

    I have known that you could ride all night or tread water for several alphas, but simply choose to fight my horde nights.

    You should not need some outside restraint to keep you from "cheating" the blood moon if you do not find it to be fun. No need to waste dev time engineering new penalties.
    How about you quit telling people what they can or cannot suggest in a game forum?
    I mean the comment you made earlier:
    Why bother?

    Who cares if someone runs, swims, digs or otherwise avoids horde night?

    Let's stop trying to micromanage other people's play style and let them do WTF ever they want to do with their game.

    Let them play however they want.
    Is basically saying "suggestions", by merely reading it, has the power to make you, and others, play only certain ways?
    Can you actually tell me how this is possible?
    How is people suggesting stuff, on a forum no less, capable of telling anyone what to do in their game?
    Honestly! please explain how that works?

  6. #21
    Colony Founder n2n1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    Have cars get stuck and start to slip when running over a zed. Hit a stack of Zeds and you're practically done for.

    ///
    this is what a competent solution to the problem of transport looks like on a Bloody Night.

    ...and there is no magic like magnetic storms.
    Last edited by n2n1; 07-13-2019 at 03:58 AM.

  7. #22
    Colony Founder n2n1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    Have cars get stuck and start to slip when running over a zed. Hit a stack of Zeds and you're practically done for.

    ///

    in the continuation - as a solution with a gyrocopter:

    - on a Bloody night, the vultures do not vomit to the pilot, but simply throw themselves on the main rotor of the gyrocopter like a kamikaze, after which it falls.
    Last edited by n2n1; 07-13-2019 at 03:59 AM.

  8. #23
    Navezgane's Perv SnowDog1942's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grue View Post
    Why bother?

    Who cares if someone runs, swims, digs or otherwise avoids horde night?

    Let's stop trying to micromanage other people's play style and let them do WTF ever they want to do with their game.

    Let them play however they want.
    Again, i want challenges on horde night while driving for MY enjoyment. I dont care AT ALL how it affects you or anyone else. You might think u are the center of the universe and you may think people care about how u play. Newsflash, you and your play style, or anyone elses play style are not important to me in the slightest bit.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    People like me are not caring about what other people do.
    What we want is for us to have challenges to face if we try to do such things, because that's how we want to play our game.
    There are 1,726 different settings to make your game easier. There are zero settings to give us our game.
    Mod it!
    Last edited by HerrKingsley; 07-13-2019 at 04:16 AM.

  10. #25
    Inventor HerrKingsley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowDog1942 View Post
    Again, i want challenges on horde night while driving for MY enjoyment. I dont care AT ALL how it affects you or anyone else. You might think u are the center of the universe and you may think people care about how u play. Newsflash, you and your play style, or anyone elses play style are not important to me in the slightest bit.
    Then mod it!

  11. #26
    Reconstructionist 4sheetzngeegles's Avatar
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    A possible balance for bloodmoon in the future releases may be. Don't disable the basic entity spawners on that night. Instead in spawning.xml add a line for "bloodmoon spawn group time="bloodmoon_night" that pulls from the bloodmoon level in entitygroups.xml, this would allow for the horde to come from everywhere, continuously until dawn. since they would be keyed on the players, no matter where you go in the 7dtd world you activate the spawners in that area continuously.
    example: <spawn maxcount="20" respawndelay=".0016" time="Bloodmoon_Night" entitygroup="Bloodmoon_Horde" /> Then associate that line with the gamestage to change the spawn in the world that night.
    Last edited by 4sheetzngeegles; 07-13-2019 at 04:39 AM.

  12. #27
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HerrKingsley View Post
    Mod it!
    If we need to...as a last resort.

    But for now we are having a discussion on balance that the developer, himself, is engaged in. Stating reasons why proposed balancing moves are not a good idea and what might be better is a productive response. Casting people as villains who want to ruin the fun of others is less productive.

    A well produced game is balanced so that players don’t have to pretend glaring loopholes don’t exist. It’s interesting that even the opposing camp doesn’t disagree that there is a balancing problem but they want us all to just pretend it doesn’t exist and they do this on behalf of some population they are not even members of. The loudest objections are coming from people who don’t run away from the horde themselves—or claim not to.

    It’s just non-forum-using friends and relatives they’re looking out for?

    Personally, I am for having to drive skillfully to not hit zombies all night and I love Guppy’s proposal of loss of traction/ chance to wipe out increasing with each zombie hit— on any day. That sounds like a fun alternative to base defending that I would probably try so as to mix things up and have a more diverse playing experience.

  13. #28
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Personally, I am for having to drive skillfully to not hit zombies all night and I love Guppy’s proposal of loss of traction/ chance to wipe out increasing with each zombie hit— on any day. That sounds like a fun alternative to base defending that I would probably try so as to mix things up and have a more diverse playing experience.
    Ideas like this align well with the game. I seem to prefer the ideas that keep the zombies as the main threat.
    The other more fantastical ideas are fun to read and imagine, but they seem out of place to me in this world.

    In older zombie movies, you would sometimes see people driving through hordes of zombies like hot knives through butter. More recently I have watched scenes that are quite a bit more realistic. Zombie guts blocking the radiator, limbs jammed up in the wheel wells, wheels spinning on a mass of mushy gore, or simply the vehicle become overwhelmed by too many bodies and cannot push through anymore. In this world it seems feasible that I could hit a zombie and get slowed down enough to not be able to steer clear of the next one. I might even decide to hop off/out before too many hone in on the action.

    There is this one episode of Fear the Walking Dead that demonstrates even being on a boat isn't totally safe from similar disasters. I think it was a hand or an arm that got sucked up into the boat's intake after driving over a floater and stalled the engines... until it was found and pulled out of the pipes. I don't remember the exact details, but I always thought it was awesome that someone thought of that happening.

  14. #29
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    It's also funny that additional unbalanced loopholes are thrown out there as some sort of reason to not fix the one that is being discussed. These examples don't make me want to give up on fixing the loophole. They just add on to the to do list.


    Rooftops of buildings were mentioned..

    Vultures nesting on rooftops would be one way to make things interesting as well as the return of a vertical wall climbing zombie. Unless you prepare that rooftop ahead of time you will be fighting off climbers who can follow you up there.

    Treading water was mentioned..

    I like the idea of a water based enemy or just make it so zombie dogs can swim. Someone (Odetta?) mentioned that changing wood blocks to be able to be placed and to float on water would be a great way to give wood building a place in the world. Then, no treading would be required. Players could build a floating base with hopefully some appropriate threats to it that could be defended against.

    Logging off is always mentioned..

    Who cares? We are looking to add fun for those of us who stay to play the game.

  15. #30
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    I love Guppy’s proposal of loss of traction/ chance to wipe out increasing with each zombie hit— on any day. That sounds like a fun alternative to base defending that I would probably try so as to mix things up and have a more diverse playing experience.
    I play Zombie Driver HD when I'm super lazy and don't want to go upstairs (it's one of the few games that works well on controller so I can just use my steam box thingie ma bob on the big tv), and that's the basic gist... you can shoot at them of course, but running them over is more fun, until you run over too many... then they beat your car to ♥♥♥♥ and you die. Good times.

    At any rate, if it was actually dangerous to drive during horde night it would solve the alleged "problem" of people playing how they want, and making the people who hole up in a spike field jealous. We can't have that!

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