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Thread: A18 Streamer Weekend is here!

  1. #31
    Reconstructionist spacepiggio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaxTeller718 View Post
    Are you insane?
    Yes,
    Quite Mad Actually,
    Mad that I can't,
    Play,
    (Evil Laughhh)
    (Pinky On Cheek)
    (Evil LAughhh Again)
    Quite

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCrook1028 View Post
    If you read the AI was a test then you read wrong.
    SylenThunder on the Steam forums has stated it a few times over there that the zombie AI was a test for upcoming bandits. I get that they probably aren't a member of the TFP team working on the game but they are the forum moderator over there who takes care of posting game updates on the forums and answering people's questions about game development, so you'd think they'd know what they were talking about and not be spreading misinformation?

    That's why I came here though to inquire and regardless of what they are doing with the AI though, like I said, it would be nice if they would give us the option to have super smart AI or to turn it off, or even have it linked to the game difficulty so that if you play on the harder difficulties then you get smarter zombies that way people can customize the game how they like...which is what they already seem to be trying so hard to offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khulkhuum View Post
    First and foremost, it's important to understand that A17 to some extent was experimental in a way that it introduced many new concepts, as well as features that would later on be tweaked and enhanced further. Reworking of skills in A18 gets complete overhaul to bring in a great design of varied skills. Reworking of POIs into more dungeon like was a basis to see how people liked the idea and now even more are reworked in the same manner, but also little POIs, as well as almost empty ones are being added. Fighting changed to some extent, combined with how stamina works, but A18 introduces many new weapons to work with, as well as tweaks to the usage of many tools and weapons.

    Lastly, zombie AI has been enhanced even further than in A17, which can be seen in MM videos. Surely there is this super intelligent AI, but surely it's been a little dumbed down or polished around the edges so that not all Zs amass at a single block. To that degree i could say that the initial AI improvement in A17 was a test, because it was tweaked and enhanced further to more suit the idea and atmosphere of 7DTD. Just like any other feature in A17 (for instance, vehicles, attack/swing animations, performance, etc.).
    Thank you for posting but I do know how the alpha's work, I've been playing the game since like Alpha 13 so I am aware that everything they are doing is a constant work in progress and likely doesn't totally reflect the finished product, but we can sort of tell what direction they seem to want to go in by the progress they have been doing and so far from what I've seen with a17 I'm not liking it. I'm not really a fan of the dungeon POI's, nor have I been a fan of the sleepers from the beginning. I am aware though that a lot of things likely changed from a17 so like I said, I'll see what changes have been done by checking out the streamers this weekend.

    I do like it though that the POI spawning has been reworked so that small poi's have higher chances of having less or no sleepers. I find that sleepers are one of the things that impact performance for me a lot. I'd personally like to see that non dungeon POI's have no sleepers at all and then dungeon POI's be where you have lots of sleepers since they are suppose to be harder and give the bigger, better rewards, and only have a few dungeons per town. Things do seem to be leaning more towards that sort of thing from what I read in the patch notes though so I'm glad for that.

    I'm still in the mind though that a16 was great the way it was and the game just needed performance tweaks and AI bug fixing to be perfect but they then decided to go in a completely different direction which is a shame in my opinion and plenty of people felt the same way. I would just play a16 again but it just doesn't play well on my system so I just have to wait and see if a18 actually brings some of the fun that a16 had back in the game.
    Last edited by Jackulwulf; 10-04-2019 at 10:37 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackulwulf View Post
    SylenThunder on the Steam forums has stated it a few times over there that the zombie AI was a test for upcoming bandits. I get that they probably aren't a member of the TFP team working on the game but they are the forum moderator over there who takes care of posting game updates on the forums and answering people's questions about game development, so you'd think they'd know what they were talking about and not be spreading misinformation?

    That's why I came here though to inquire and regardless of what they are doing with the AI though, like I said, it would be nice if they would give us the option to have super smart AI or to turn it off, or even have it linked to the game difficulty so that if you play on the harder difficulties then you get smarter zombies that way people can customize the game how they like...which is what they already seem to be trying so hard to offer.

    Based on how I read it. Probably will not be a option. The zombies currently are not the final result so they can change at any time. When bandits get put in if the zombies need balancing around them then will be done. What isn't goin to happen is have them back the way they was. MM said the zombies are way better now then them running around in circles.... based on MM videos he has shown they still smart but not smart. Also we had pages of pages already talked about the lore of zombies. When in comes down to it that this is a game not reality. As MM says reality has not place in a video game. But don't take it literally please. Basically some stuff sure but fun out weighs reality. To many things in this game already out weighs reality. All I can say is sorry you don't find it fun but maybe give A18 a chance and see because they are definitely different then A17.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazywildfire View Post
    Based on how I read it. Probably will not be a option. The zombies currently are not the final result so they can change at any time. When bandits get put in if the zombies need balancing around them then will be done. What isn't goin to happen is have them back the way they was. MM said the zombies are way better now then them running around in circles.... based on MM videos he has shown they still smart but not smart. Also we had pages of pages already talked about the lore of zombies. When in comes down to it that this is a game not reality. As MM says reality has not place in a video game. But don't take it literally please. Basically some stuff sure but fun out weighs reality. To many things in this game already out weighs reality. All I can say is sorry you don't find it fun but maybe give A18 a chance and see because they are definitely different then A17.

    Yea I understand that changes are still being made all the time and I do agree that the running in circles things was a problem that needed fixing....I did state that a16 zombies weren't entirely perfect, they needed work. I'm also not going to absolutely not give a18 a chance cause I will and I do hope that it becomes fun again cause I'm not the only one who feels that a17 was just not fun, Gamesforkickz is a diehard 7 days fan and even he found a17 to not be fun at all because of the zombie AI and the way the perk system was.

    And that is the gist of it though, you have to balance fun vs reality in games and it isn't always an easy thing but fun ultimately does have to win out over anything else and it does seem like they are listening to what people were saying so I'm holding out some hope still cause I did really enjoy this game before.

  5. #35
    Inventor Khulkhuum's Avatar
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    My point was not simply explaining how EA works, but rather put pressure on the "A17 was more of a test update and introduction to further enhancements" than simply it was a content update. Like you know, digging out ground and putting up foundations for the pool in your back yard. The ground is still dug up, it's a bit messy here and there, you can't enjoy the pool fully, but with some more work it'll be great.

    In contrast, i see in many other titles updates that simply focus on adding specific content, fully fleshed out features. Sure 7DTD is EA and sometimes new mechanics could pop in for testing purposes. But considering the Unity update (whose features are further used in A18) and the time it took them to finish even that many base mechanics (not fully polished mind you), i'm more inclined to my theory than anything else. Sure i may be wrong, but what if we had A17 something around March or May this year?

    No sense in bartering about it as we haven't fully experienced A18 yet. The fact that they didn't sit down and enjoy everything around, but worked hard for the A18, especially with the amount of changes introduced, shows that A17 was a crucial step altogether. Even if some people don't like it. I'm also not a big fan of A17, but i know sometimes you have to make a mess before making something good.

  6. #36
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    Anyone of you kind souls have weekend A18 password?
    If the answer is yes PM me with your channel name and password.
    I may pause my BL3 shenanigans to watch you and play along.

  7. #37
    Ranger Sam_Neill's Avatar
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    You wont need a password to watch the streams ;-)

  8. #38
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    So... which streamer to watch? Are there any who are really drunk when they start streaming?

    I checked a random Japanese one in advance and I think I lost a big part of my sanity... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPrWpcTTHlg

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by meganoth View Post
    The reason for the streamer weekend being exclusive to the streamers is that it is virtual payment for the streamers service: They get more visitors when they can show exclusive content (which is more advertisement money for them and more potential subscribers). They get also more visitors because some (not all) of the people who would be playing A18 will watch a stream instead.

    That streamers like to show exclusive content is proven by how many streamers want to participate. That some players will watch streams instead is also proven by statements here on the forum, how many is anyones guess though
    Ну конечно, куда мне до них, у меня всего то на канале 883 подписчика, мне же не надо развивать канал... Подумаешь, какой то там парень, всего то 3420 часов играл в игру, у которого 90% контента на канале это 7 Дней до смерти. Зачем ему ключик, он же не хочет в числе первых стримить. Так вы думаете?
    https://www.youtube.com/user/Mr14Roman88

  10. #40
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackulwulf View Post
    SylenThunder on the Steam forums has stated it a few times over there that the zombie AI was a test for upcoming bandits.
    Let me clarify that for you.

    The pathing and zombie AI was vastly improved so that zombies would no longer spin in circles and get stuck on terrain decorations and blocks. This meant that they could "see" long pathways leading to the player and would always choose the cheapest pathway. In 17.0 we got the first version of this which made them seem very smart and cunning. This was not the intended end behavior for them however. Many of the behaviors exhibited would be appropriate for human bandits so in that sense the raw pathing system was something that would work for zombies and bandits with zombies needing a lot of dumbing down from the raw perfect information state and bandits probably needing just a little dumbing down.

    So Sylen was correct that this pathing in its raw form was also preliminary work for bandits which the developers also would not want to get stuck on terrain or to spin in circles. As Alpha 17 progressed the pathing and AI was "dumbed down" somewhat and randomized behaviors introduced in order to obfuscate the perfect knowledge they were exhibiting. There has been some additional work done in this regard for A18.

    Bandits will probably need less "dumbing down" than the zombies but they will also have their own AI routines that will allow them to coordinate with each other, seek cover, retreat, etc. which are behaviors not associated with zombies at all. So in this sense the zombie AI we have now is different than the ones the bandits will have.

    There will not be a toggle for the zombies because the pathing they employ is necessary to keep them from getting stuck and spinning in circles etc. Instead TFP will continue to refine them so that the fact that they have perfect knowledge of where you are and how to get to you is more hidden and doesn't always emerge. That is, in fact, the art of AI: giving the computer opponent perfect knowledge and then causing it to still make "mistakes" in a way that appears natural.

    There probably won't be a toggle for digging either as it is integrated into the pathing system and not just a separate task that zombies can or can't do.
    Last edited by Roland; 10-04-2019 at 05:53 PM.

  11. #41
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    Well damn, this interferes with the plan to get my first ONI asteroid colony launching a space ship.

    Duplicantes might suffocate..

  12. #42
    Chronic Cougher Ouch Quit It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guppycur View Post
    Best patch notes ever.

    ...very well written.
    Whoever wrote them...please dont stop short...LOL!!!

  13. #43
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    Why do I see streamers not in the list streaming A18?

  14. #44
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv View Post
    Why do I see streamers not in the list streaming A18?
    Conspiracy. Who?

  15. #45
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riv View Post
    Why do I see streamers not in the list streaming A18?
    Who? Send me a private message.
    Last edited by Roland; 10-04-2019 at 11:46 PM.

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