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Thread: Un-craftable wooden bow parts...

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Un-craftable wooden bow parts...

    There are many good things in A18 so far, but making wooden bow parts un-craftable is silly. Not explicitly stating in the description that the perk is useless if you have no bow parts is silly AND disingenuous. People have been making bows for about 3,000 years, so it's definitely not advanced spaceman technology.

    I get that you want people to explore and loot and such, but this kind of hamfisted silliness ain't the way to get it done. I haven't poked through the new data files yet, but hopefully I can mod this out and we can all pretend it never happened. :P

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    Inventor Kalarro's Avatar
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    I missed beeing encouraged to go out and explore and loot with the removal of recipes in a17. So Im happy they encouraged it again in a18. But there are limits, not beeing able to craft a simple bow without parts...
    Guns is another thing, since it's like the top of the top. But a bow is a basic tool. So now we cant just craft bows and meanwhile guns drop everywhere. I liked guns as a last resort thing at least until late game

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    Fun Pimps Staff Gazz's Avatar
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    Correction: You can craft a simple bow without special parts. Just not the more advanced ones.

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    My argument is with the Archery perk, so the primitive bow (which is useless, you're better off with a spear) doesn't apply to this discussion. The first USEFUL wooden bow (which requires the perk) uses un-craftable bow parts.

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    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    So we've gone back to A16 then....you can't craft guns (and bows?!) without first finding parts or dismantling another weapon. I like it!

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    Colony Founder Scyris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    So we've gone back to A16 then....you can't craft guns (and bows?!) without first finding parts or dismantling another weapon. I like it!
    Hate to tell you, you could craft wooden bow and crossbow in a16 without any special parts unlike the guns. I do feel the amount of mats to make higher tier stuff needs to be adjusted, as its +100% mat cost each time. Part of the reason for the weapon/armor parts is so players cannot mass produce them and sell them to trader for massive profit. The other part is to slow down progression and get people out looting.

    Sadly for me this has had a negative effect as I now see almost no point to crafting weapons or tools anymore, its just too costly, easier to scavenge and use what I find. Isin't much point atm to cooking either with how common canned food is. Same for boiling water, past day 1 you should be swimming in it from looting a poi or 2. In my current game I have over 300 raw meat sitting in a chest I've never had any reason to use, as I find more than enough canned food to keep me going. The loot rates on defaults need some serious looking at, as they are far to high and stuff is far to common. A17 had the balance about right, but they kinda ruined it in a18 by making things far to easy to get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    So we've gone back to A16 then....you can't craft guns (and bows?!) without first finding parts or dismantling another weapon. I like it!
    Hate to tell you, you could craft wooden bow and crossbow in a16 without any special parts unlike the guns. I do feel the amount of mats to make higher tier stuff needs to be adjusted, as its +100% mat cost each time. Part of the reason for the weapon/armor parts is so players cannot mass produce them and sell them to trader for massive profit. The other part is to slow down progression and get people out looting.

    Sadly for me this has had a negative effect as I now see almost no point to crafting weapons or tools anymore, its just too costly, easier to scavenge and use what I find. Isin't much point atm to cooking either with how common canned food is. Same for boiling water, past day 1 you should be swimming in it from looting a poi or 2. In my current game I have over 300 raw meat sitting in a chest I've never had any reason to use, as I find more than enough canned food to keep me going. The loot rates on defaults need some serious looking at, as they are far to high and stuff is far to common. A17 had the balance about right, but they kinda ruined it in a18 by making things far to easy to get.

    I do agree however that needing wooden bow parts IS extremly stupid, as there is no mechanical parts involved. It makes sense for the crossbow or compound bow, but not the wooden bow, its literally a stick and a string.

  7. #7
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    ahh, but is better wood (and glue) and a better string.


    (I'm stuck trying to find the stupid parts too. Found a lvl 3 xbow though, so..)

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    I think the biggest sin is advertising that the very first archery perk "unlocks wooden bow crafting", when it really doesn't. A perk point spend is basically _the_ major expense early, telling people they can craft better bows if they spend this point and then ha ha no you can't we fooled you they're not wooden bows, they're "Wooden Bow Parts" bows!, is maybe even a little contemptuous of beginners' ignorance. Add "from (looted or scrapped) Wooden Bow Parts" to the perk point description, that'd help.
    Last edited by quyxkh; 10-10-2019 at 04:53 PM.

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    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyris View Post
    Hate to tell you, you could craft wooden bow and crossbow in a16 without any special parts unlike the guns.
    Well it's guns I care about.

    I now see almost no point to crafting weapons or tools anymore, its just too costly, easier to scavenge and use what I find.
    I assumed if I had Gunslinger at level 5 and collected all the parts (including by dismantling some level 1 Pistols) that I could then construct a level 5 Pistol. Do I have that wrong?

    In my current game I have over 300 raw meat sitting in a chest I've never had any reason to use, as I find more than enough canned food to keep me going
    I don't get it. We are seeing little to no canned food. This is 3 people looting the backside out of a city while I mine. We are always about 1 meal away from starving.
    Last edited by Ghostlight; 10-10-2019 at 05:13 PM.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quyxkh View Post
    I think the biggest sin is advertising that the very first archery perk "unlocks wooden bow crafting", when it really doesn't. A perk point spend is basically _the_ major expense early, telling people they can craft better bows if they spend this point and then ha ha no you can't we fooled you they're not wooden bows, they're "Wooden Bow Parts" bows!, is maybe even a little contemptuous of beginners' ignorance. Add "from (looted or scrapped) Wooden Bow Parts" to the perk point description, that'd help.
    No.

    Even beginners should know that crafting involves both the knowledge and also a recipe. What craftable item in the game can be made with knowledge only and no recipe? None. There is nothing disingenuous about it. You gain the knowledge and then gather the mats to craft. You cannot craft wood or stone or feathers-- you go out and find them. You also cannot craft bow parts-- you go out and find them. There is nothing different about this than any other part of the game.

    Spending the perk point begins your quest of finding the parts so you can craft one. The perks also give bonuses besides the ability to craft.

    Now a valid criticism in my mind of the current system is that you should be able to choose to craft any tier of a weapon at or below your current perk level instead of being forced to only craft the best one you can. If I only have 9 parts I might want to craft that level of a bow rather than having to keep looking for 12 parts for the better level bow.

    Perhaps another valid criticism would be that the world needs to be stocked with more parts to be found or maybe more whole weapons at the brown quality level so that you have lots of material to scrap for parts. But to say that there is a bait and switch going on here is wrong.
    Last edited by Roland; 10-10-2019 at 05:43 PM.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    I don't get it. We are seeing little to no canned food. This is 3 people looting the backside out of a city while I mine. We are always about 1 meal away from starving.
    Purchasing from vending machines and doing buried treasure quests may be the difference if you aren't doing those two things in addition to scavenging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Purchasing from vending machines and doing buried treasure quests may be the difference if you aren't doing those two things in addition to scavenging.
    Before, I completely ignored vending machines. Now? I'm buying from them every few days.

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    Colony Founder Scyris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vedrit View Post
    Before, I completely ignored vending machines. Now? I'm buying from them every few days.
    They actually restock daily, I try to visit my traders each day to see what it has.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    You cannot craft wood or stone or feathers-- you go out and find them. You also cannot craft bow parts-- you go out and find them. There is nothing different about this than any other part of the game.
    Who exactly am I to suppose is unable to tell the difference between natural and crafted items here? I don't like any of the answers to that, because they all involve that word I used.

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    Tracker OldManBrian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quyxkh View Post
    Who exactly am I to suppose is unable to tell the difference between natural and crafted items here? I don't like any of the answers to that, because they all involve that word I used.
    Seriously, this absolutely IS a design problem. Why the heck would anyone expect there to be "Wood Bow" parts around in the world in the same manner as there are stones and feathers? Was there an robin hood convention in town right before the apocalypse?

    It's frustrating as a user not knowing what you're getting into with these perks. Like has been said, they are the most limited and crucial choices for a player starting out, and to waste one on something that you can't even use is a big deal and letdown.

    There should just be some small bullet points about any requirements or limitations for those perk descriptions.

    Sure, everyone could just "Get Gud" and figure it out, but not before being thoroughly annoyed and frustrated about the lack of clarity in the available choices.

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