Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 155

Thread: Anyone else think this version is a big pile of stinking Krap?

  1. #31
    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,877
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigy View Post
    Honestly, this is sort of bull♥♥♥♥ that TFP fed you, that we all gullibly gobble down just because you don't actually see the word "level" involved... A little looking shows that the level-gating is actually still pretty much there, just incredibly hidden.

    Realistically? With the steep stat-gates for many fairly fundamental aspects of gameplay, the increased tankiness of enemies, and the 300% faster "per level" increase to exp requirements, you're still needing to invest as much time to open anything fairly advanced. In my opinion, most people just don't see it because they're not actually seeing the word level.

    Hypothetically speaking, if before, you needed Level 25 (which required 250,000 experience), but now you only need 14 skill points which also takes 250,000 experience to get)... you really didn't gain anything.
    You're free to adjust the games leveling curve to suit your needs. You can adjust experience gained in the games own menu, or you can edit the XML's to adjust the rate at which it increases per level, the base amount of XP required per level, or even the number of skill points rewarded for each level. What has been removed is any specific "must be level [x] to unlock this perk" requirement, and that does allow the player much more freedom to spec as they want, and with the ability to very simply modify the game, the speed at which they can spec.

  2. #32
    Reconstructionist
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    713
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigy View Post
    Honestly, this is sort of bull♥♥♥♥ that TFP fed you, that we all gullibly gobble down just because you don't actually see the word "level" involved... A little looking shows that the level-gating is actually still pretty much there, just incredibly hidden.

    Realistically? With the steep stat-gates for many fairly fundamental aspects of gameplay, the increased tankiness of enemies, and the 300% faster "per level" increase to exp requirements, you're still needing to invest as much time to open anything fairly advanced. In my opinion, most people just don't see it because they're not actually seeing the word level.

    Hypothetically speaking, if before, you needed Level 25 (which required 250,000 experience), but now you only need 14 skill points which also takes 250,000 experience to get)... you really didn't gain anything.
    What are you even talking about. Like what specifically requires 14 skill points to unlock that you cant unlock at level 1 with a schematic? Also no change was made to the "tankiness" of zombies.

  3. #33
    Scavenger
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynard69 View Post
    What are you even talking about. Like what specifically requires 14 skill points to unlock that you cant unlock at level 1 with a schematic? Also no change was made to the "tankiness" of zombies.
    Is your answer to spending 14 points really, really just to hope that the masters of divinity bless you with the particular schematic that you're looking for for your character? I can only speak to my personal experience, but my ~19-20 hours on my world have awarded me with precisely... 2 schematics that my character build (in this playthrough, a mechanical engineer) really needed.

    If your answer to staggering skill-gates is "f'k it, loot and pray"... I'm not sure you'll ever understand what I'm even talking about.

  4. #34
    Reconstructionist
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    713
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigy View Post
    Is your answer to spending 14 points really, really just to hope that the masters of divinity bless you with the particular schematic that you're looking for for your character? I can only speak to my personal experience, but my ~19-20 hours on my world have awarded me with precisely... 2 schematics that my character build (in this playthrough, a mechanical engineer) really needed.

    If your answer to staggering skill-gates is "f'k it, loot and pray"... I'm not sure you'll ever understand what I'm even talking about.
    I answered nothing, If you check again you can see my response was a question, which you failed to answer.

  5. #35
    Scavenger
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by OzHawkeye View Post
    You're free to adjust the games leveling curve to suit your needs. You can adjust experience gained in the games own menu, or you can edit the XML's to adjust the rate at which it increases per level, the base amount of XP required per level, or even the number of skill points rewarded for each level. What has been removed is any specific "must be level [x] to unlock this perk" requirement, and that does allow the player much more freedom to spec as they want, and with the ability to very simply modify the game, the speed at which they can spec.
    To be fair, by that same token, you could've easily modded out the level requirements before, decreased experience, knocked the leveling progression up from 1.0149 to 1.05, etc. etc.
    Essentially, the same argument you have for me, the exact inverse would've given you the A18 progression experience that you appear to be supporting? I say that to make a point that I hope you can agree with, "Moddability doesn't excuse poor balancing or design".

    Yet you're telling me to do just that.

    As for adjusting the exp itself - I may in time, but truthfully, if you look at how quickly the exp requirements scale - even increasing XP - once you hit even mid game, the current "per level" gain rapidly outpaces what even the options can make up for.

    As an example:
    By level 30, you need 49% more exp than you did in A17.
    By level 40, you need 87% more exp than you did in A17.
    By level 50, you need 138% more exp than you did in A17.

    So, you can see that, even boosting exp to 200%, by level 50, that's already substantially lower than what you need to compensate for the slower progression. You'd still take longer reaching Level 50, than you would with only 100% exp in A17.

    Consider that some things take such a significant amount of points to unlock. I.E. unlocking the Junk turret takes 7. Unlocking first-aid bandages (I believe) takes 8. Unlocking a supply of meat stew (farming & cooking) takes about 15. That's not including other "basic" skills that people tend to level up - healing factor, miner, loot, cardio, pain tolerance, their weapon skill, etc. Now, consider that level 8 is the magic level where you actually start requiring more exp than you did in A17, and I think you can start to see how, if you want to develop an interesting character instead of just letting RNGeezus grab you by the nuts and drag you where it wants, you can fairly quickly become more chained and restricted by this system, than you were by the leveling system in A17.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynard69 View Post
    I answered nothing, If you check again you can see my response was a question, which you failed to answer.
    You specifically listed schematics as an alternative to the 14 skill points required. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that, you were intending to give a sarcastic answer, than to have to accept that you're actually that clueless.

  6. #36
    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,877
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigy View Post
    Is your answer to spending 14 points really, really just to hope that the masters of divinity bless you with the particular schematic that you're looking for for your character? I can only speak to my personal experience, but my ~19-20 hours on my world have awarded me with precisely... 2 schematics that my character build (in this playthrough, a mechanical engineer) really needed.

    If your answer to staggering skill-gates is "f'k it, loot and pray"... I'm not sure you'll ever understand what I'm even talking about.
    You seem to want to plan out your character before you've even started the game - and that's ok, if that's how you want to play, more power to you, but the game doesn't play that way. Without investing in the requisite perks, you're at the mercy of RNG - that, by the way, is a plus in my book, since each game will play differently depending on what schematics I happen to find.

    What I suggest you do, is give yourself whatever schematics relate to your role play character at the start of each game, and then you can role play an engineer-survivor, or a doctor-survivor or a miner-survivor, or whatever it is you want to play.

    I'll continue to play the game in what I find to be the more enjoyable "my character will evolve depending on what I find" kind of way.

  7. #37
    Scavenger
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by OzHawkeye View Post
    You seem to want to plan out your character before you've even started the game - and that's ok, if that's how you want to play, more power to you, but the game doesn't play that way. Without investing in the requisite perks, you're at the mercy of RNG - that, by the way, is a plus in my book, since each game will play differently depending on what schematics I happen to find.

    What I suggest you do, is give yourself whatever schematics relate to your role play character at the start of each game, and then you can role play an engineer-survivor, or a doctor-survivor or a miner-survivor, or whatever it is you want to play.

    I'll continue to play the game in what I find to be the more enjoyable "my character will evolve depending on what I find" kind of way.
    Thank you for getting it!! lol

    That's exactly how I like to play. And, that's why the change from A17 to A18 (even with the removal of level-gates) kills me - it took away my ability to do that, an ability that was permitted for the last 3 years I played? Even with the level gates of A17 (most of which were reasonable), it was fairly simple to have a vision of a character, and role-play that character - which I don't think is a real inappropriate thing to ask out of a role playing game lol. And, although this isn't the best argument, I find it's more grounded in reality (even in the context of the game world). You had a profession, interests, skills, hobbies, knowledge, etc. before the zombies - and you're probably going to be fairly reliant on using your strengths (which would come from those things) to try and survive the best you can.

    I don't have anything against the RNG-based playstyle - I just don't want to feel handcuffed by it, like I do now.

  8. #38
    Reconstructionist
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    713
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigy View Post


    You specifically listed schematics as an alternative to the 14 skill points required. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that, you were intending to give a sarcastic answer, than to have to accept that you're actually that clueless.
    Nah, you jumped in here with a comment that makes it sound that people that disagree are all mentally bedridden, being led around by the nose by TFP buying into some propaganda or some nonsense.

    I just didnt find any truth in that post and except for the the fact that it takes a lot of xp to progress now. Which can easily be adjusted in the options.

    I asked for you to clarify what exactly it is that you feel is still gated away from you, since everything can be unlocked with either minimal investment or looting.

    I mean if you are going to jump into a discussion with underlying tones that are insulting, maybe expect a sarcastic question back when your facts are.. questionable at best.

  9. #39
    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,877
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigy View Post
    Thank you for getting it!! lol

    That's exactly how I like to play. And, that's why the change from A17 to A18 (even with the removal of level-gates) kills me - it took away my ability to do that, an ability that was permitted for the last 3 years I played? Even with the level gates of A17 (most of which were reasonable), it was fairly simple to have a vision of a character, and role-play that character - which I don't think is a real inappropriate thing to ask out of a role playing game lol. And, although this isn't the best argument, I find it's more grounded in reality (even in the context of the game world). You had a profession, interests, skills, hobbies, knowledge, etc. before the zombies - and you're probably going to be fairly reliant on using your strengths (which would come from those things) to try and survive the best you can.

    I don't have anything against the RNG-based playstyle - I just don't want to feel handcuffed by it, like I do now.
    Except it's not a Role Playing game. There actually aren't any classes in the (vanilla) game (some mods do implement them however). So, just as it was, as you yourself noted, up to me to remove level gates in A17 - which is exactly what I did - it's up to you to make 7dtd into a role playing game, if that's what you want it to do.

    So, yes, in A17 I modded out level gates. In A18 (and likely beyond), you'll have to mod in a "character class" if that's what you want to do - and the simplest way to do that, would be to give yourself, via the creative menu, what schematics you feel are appropriate to that class.

  10. #40
    Scavenger
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by OzHawkeye View Post
    Except it's not a Role Playing game. There actually aren't any classes in the (vanilla) game (some mods do implement them however). So, just as it was, as you yourself noted, up to me to remove level gates in A17 - which is exactly what I did - it's up to you to make 7dtd into a role playing game, if that's what you want it to do.

    So, yes, in A17 I modded out level gates. In A18 (and likely beyond), you'll have to mod in a "character class" if that's what you want to do - and the simplest way to do that, would be to give yourself, via the creative menu, what schematics you feel are appropriate to that class.
    Except that the devs literally describe it on Steam as an RPG...
    "... Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!"

    Kinda hard to argue that it's not intended to be an RPG when the developers themselves say it's intended to be an RPG, isn't it?

    Also - there are no specifically hardlined, defined classes in Skyrim, Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Fallout 3, Fallout 4, Wasteland 2.... or the innumerable other examples (lol)... That really doesn't change the fact that they are role playing games?

    EDIT:
    Hell, I'll even do you one better: https://7daystodie.com/?home

    Two times on its homepage, the developers refer to it as an RPG.
    Last edited by Prodigy; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:13 AM.

  11. #41
    Scavenger
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    0
    The progression is slower which I don't really care for but, for the most part I enjoy the changes.

    Bringing schems back was a really great thing. It allows people to still craft without the skill points. The only real problem is the drop rate. It has always been trash. I used to run around for 50 lvls before finding a friggin hunting knife book in previous alpha's and it isn't any better. Yay, my 12 vol 7 of the same damn book and none of the others in the set.

    Melee is kinda wonky. I don't particularly care for the glancing blows thing as I end up hurting my teamates who are nowhere near me.

    I love lockpicking it just seems silly I can't lockpick a door. It's much better than spending 3 game hours chopping through a safe with a stone axe.

    The biggest problem is apparently food. My server admin died 5 times to starvation lol. You basically have to specialize in food at the begining or you're screwed. Mining drains your food so fast you can't mine without a huge supply and many of us can't even find enough to stay alive for the week without mining.

    I love the new mining system and textures however. I can finally tell what ore is what. The previous textures were all the same and made it difficult.

    The bow used to be bread and butter. Now it's trash. Never thought I'd use that blunderbuss again but, it's far better than the bow. There's plenty of ammo to sustain just a rifle, pistol, shotty, low level but, everything requiring repair kits to fix is both good and bad. It free's up an inventory slot and yet not really possible low level to aquire. So decent weapons are throw away early game.

    Gyrocopter has always been trash. Hard to steer, hard to lift off, hit the wrong button and fall to your death. It's just dumb. Maybe, if you could take off vertical, hover, and land vertical it would be worth the effort.

    New explody demo zeds are awesome. Lucky bastards but, that was just one time hehe. They are easy to stop and it is a great dynamic. Before I just worried about cops. However, the night 7 grind has always been an issue. Most of the time a night 7 isn't worth the effort. The amount of resources to be ready and repair after doesn't make up for what you earn. This is exponetially worse now that leveling is so much slower. Most love night 7's for leveling. Now, I'd rather nerd pole and save the ammo. Early game primarily.

    I'm SOOOOO glad snowberries have been basically removed. Gawd they were dumb. I am slightly disapointed how everything food and drink warms you up but nothing cools you off anymore. Snow biome has always been a pain but now the desert is just as bad. With the exception the snow biome has some serious lag issues but i'm sure that will be fixed.

    I haven't seen a single chicken. Not one. And what's with cars being so stingy about engines and batteries? Basically have to rip 3 towns apart to find enough for 3 generator stations jeez. Broke an engine hanging by a hook in a garage, it gave me plastic... lol..

    I love the changes. There are some glaring issues but over all it's great. Not a big fan of pointless sneak skills that will never help on night 7 or schems that never drop but, it's a fair cry better than the assbaggery retardness of The Long Dark.

  12. #42
    Scavenger
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    59
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunknmunkey View Post
    The biggest problem is apparently food. My server admin died 5 times to starvation lol. You basically have to specialize in food at the begining or you're screwed. Mining drains your food so fast you can't mine without a huge supply and many of us can't even find enough to stay alive for the week without mining.
    Just want to point it out because I totally underestimated how good they were until a couple days ago: Red Tea is GOAT for mining. Only one point required to unlock them, chrysanthemum are everywhere, and you get your jars back. And the prevention to your stamina drain is massive. At level 14, I dug an entire mine, built a mine shack, collected about 600 iron, 600 clay and 600 stone in one day, and still had well over half my stamina left, from just drinking red tea that day.

  13. #43
    Scavenger
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    0
    I agree, red tea is the bomb shizzle. I just don't feel safe mining when I only have 2 cans of sham or 4 bacon and eggs that have made me sick 50% of the time.

  14. #44
    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,877
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigy View Post
    Except that the devs literally describe it on Steam as an RPG...
    "... Play the definitive zombie survival sandbox RPG that came first. Navezgane awaits!"

    Kinda hard to argue that it's not intended to be an RPG when the developers themselves say it's intended to be an RPG, isn't it?

    Also - there are no specifically hardlined, defined classes in Skyrim, Fallout 1, Fallout 2, Fallout 3, Fallout 4, Wasteland 2.... or the innumerable other examples (lol)... That really doesn't change the fact that they are role playing games?

    EDIT:
    Hell, I'll even do you one better: https://7daystodie.com/?home

    Two times on its homepage, the developers refer to it as an RPG.
    Ok, well, fair point that on the call out, but then have you ever seen a class in 7dtd vanilla? So maybe TFP should clarify that page some (their call), but the fact remains that your best way to get the game to play the way you want it to, is to mod it in, or, if it's just a "basic class" you're after, give yourself a few schematics when you start.

    Personally, I wouldn't call 7dtd an RPG, but that's just me I guess.

  15. #45
    Scavenger
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    44
    Rep Power
    0
    Personally, I wouldn't call 7dtd an RPG, but that's just me I guess.[/QUOTE]

    I prolly didn't do this right. Not very good at this forum stuff.

    Oh, I don't know. I change my classes nightly. Not exactly mage or paladin but, I could be the jerkwad, the friendly merchant, the noob sauce, the leave me alone or i'll randomly shove a flaming exploding crossbow rpg up your pie hole, sometimes I even play the orphanage owner and take in all the strays that can't even manage a wooden box house. heheh...

    There's only 2 classes, scav or craft. Doing both hurts the skills but is still possible. Just takes longer. Not sure pistolero vs machine gun joe is really a class distinction.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •