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Thread: Alpha 18 feedback and balancing thread

  1. #2146
    Leader Laz Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jugginator View Post
    It's a power of the Jar Tosser nation. Something which non-Jar Tossers or the Jedi would never teach you.

    i've got decent aim in FP, so it doesn't happen as often I suppose, but there definitely have been cases of "Uh, the same distance/aim hit last time but not this swing".
    Have you tried turning on the melee hit detection thingy? The one that shows green/red colors?

  2. #2147
    Colony Founder Aurelius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaxTeller718 View Post
    Dont want to burst your bubble but range is definitely off. I never mess with FOV so that wouldnt apply in my case. Its even worse on servers but thats expected due to desync of course.
    This. Melee range is consistently wonky when playing as a client in a P2P game.

    -A

  3. #2148
    Zombie Hunter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laz Man View Post
    Have you tried turning on the melee hit detection thingy? The one that shows green/red colors?
    Oh, interesting, I missed that option. How do you turn it on?

  4. #2149
    Colony Founder Jugginator's Avatar
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    I don't remember the exact command, but it's in the list you get by entering help in the console.

  5. #2150
    Navezgane's Perv SnowDog1942's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
    This. Melee range is consistently wonky when playing as a client in a P2P game.

    -A
    I have been saying this but they donít want to listen. They just blame the internet, ping, lag, etc. Itís much worse than any other game out there considering the internet and all those factors that affect all games.

  6. #2151
    Leader Laz Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowDog1942 View Post
    I have been saying this but they donít want to listen. They just blame the internet, ping, lag, etc. Itís much worse than any other game out there considering the internet and all those factors that affect all games.
    Have you done testing with the hit detection thingy? I remember someone doing a video and hit detection seemed accurate to the cursor/target.

    I think what was throwing people off was the the swing animation in relation to the center cursor/target.

  7. #2152
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaxTeller718 View Post
    Dont want to burst your bubble but range is definitely off. I never mess with FOV so that wouldnt apply in my case. Its even worse on servers but thats expected due to desync of course.
    It feels as designed to me. One person's off is another's on. I play SP though, so no lag and no weird MP desync hits.

  8. #2153
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    There's no way to make this not sound condescending so apologies in advance:

    I have had to teach family members the outer range of being able to hit zombies and it is always further away than they thought it was. They were getting hit mainly because they would wait to swing until they were what they felt was close enough to hit but it was way closer than it needed to be and so they were often getting tagged by the zombie and feeling like combat was trading hits.

    Maybe people (even experienced veterans) should do a double check and make sure they've found the actual max range they can stand and still hit a zombie with their weapon. It is definitely outside the range that they can hit back. Once learned you will almost never get hit when striking and this also applies to MP.

    I know the inclination is to look at my post as trying to deflect blame from the coding and tell people to git gud but I seriously do believe that people are typically standing closer than they need to in order to strike their target. This was also the case back when falling trees could kill. I watched "proof videos" of the "problem" and in every case the player was practically humping the tree as they chopped instead of standing back from it.

    Too bad it all resulted in falling trees no longer doing lethal damage. Would love to get that back so we could make them fall on approaching zombies again.

  9. #2154
    Navezgane's Perv SnowDog1942's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    There's no way to make this not sound condescending so apologies in advance:

    I have had to teach family members the outer range of being able to hit zombies and it is always further away than they thought it was. They were getting hit mainly because they would wait to swing until they were what they felt was close enough to hit but it was way closer than it needed to be and so they were often getting tagged by the zombie and feeling like combat was trading hits.

    Maybe people (even experienced veterans) should do a double check and make sure they've found the actual max range they can stand and still hit a zombie with their weapon. It is definitely outside the range that they can hit back. Once learned you will almost never get hit when striking and this also applies to MP.

    I know the inclination is to look at my post as trying to deflect blame from the coding and tell people to git gud but I seriously do believe that people are typically standing closer than they need to in order to strike their target. This was also the case back when falling trees could kill. I watched "proof videos" of the "problem" and in every case the player was practically humping the tree as they chopped instead of standing back from it.

    Too bad it all resulted in falling trees no longer doing lethal damage. Would love to get that back so we could make them fall on approaching zombies again.

    Please try playing as a client in peer to peer and then compare to playing as the host, itís a world of difference. Much more difference than I experience in other games.

  10. #2155
    Fun Pimps Staff Gazz's Avatar
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    Zombies still take damage from falling trees.

  11. #2156
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowDog1942 View Post
    Please try playing as a client in peer to peer and then compare to playing as the host, it’s a world of difference. Much more difference than I experience in other games.
    I believe you. I've played as the client on my brother's computer in P2P and I do get hit more often but then that is basically admitting that the blame is fairly placed...

    Quote Originally Posted by SnowDog1942 View Post
    They just blame the internet, ping, lag, etc.
    I am rarely hit back when playing on a dedicated server with low ping and almost never hit back when playing SP. The only times I get hit are when I make a blunder on timing and/or range and it makes perfect sense to me why I got hit.

    So if it is practically never in SP, rarely on a strongly connected dedicated, and then more often as a client in P2P, then why can't you accept that the culprit actually is latency?

  12. #2157
    Colony Founder Aurelius's Avatar
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    With single player you can scoot in, hit, and step back out of their contact range. This becomes a muscle memory so you know just how far back you have to go to evade the hit.

    When you switch to being a client in a P2P setting, this mechanism changes. It's really not about "my too far is your too close" - if you move the same distance as you would in a SP game, you'll get hit when you shouldn't.

    It's pretty subtle, but you can notice it by playing strictly melee in SP mode and getting used to the evasion timing and distance, and then joining a P2P game as a client. If you start up the game as the host, you won't see any problems.

    Please don't poo-poo this as being due to network lag, or not knowing where the optimal distance is for meleeing. It's an issue that's been around for ages, and it makes MP combat annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    So if it is practically never in SP, rarely on a strongly connected dedicated, and then more often as a client in P2P, then why can't you accept that the culprit actually is latency?
    I can't speak to dedicated servers, but I will say that my ping is sub 30 when playing a P2P game. I doubt I'd get much better latency with a dedicated server.

    Easy enough to test though - set up a P2P game on LAN, and you'll see the same problem surface.

    -A
    Last edited by Aurelius; 12-06-2019 at 12:30 AM.

  13. #2158
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazz View Post
    Zombies still take damage from falling trees.
    But they don't die when hit and that is very anticlimactic. I'd say even a demolisher should get one hit killed from a felled tree....

  14. #2159
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
    With single player you can scoot in, hit, and step back out of their contact range. This becomes a muscle memory so you know just how far back you have to go to evade the hit.

    When you switch to being a client in a P2P setting, this mechanism changes. It's really not about "my too far is your too close" - if you move the same distance as you would in a SP game, you'll get hit when you shouldn't.

    It's pretty subtle, but you can notice it by playing strictly melee in SP mode and getting used to the evasion timing and distance, and then joining a P2P game as a client. If you start up the game as the host, you won't see any problems.

    Please don't poo-poo this as being due to network lag, or not knowing where the optimal distance is for meleeing. It's an issue that's been around for ages, and it makes MP combat annoying.

    -A
    But network lag sounds exactly like the culprit from your own description. You have to adjust and get used to the latency in order to get close to what you can achieve in SP which has no latency. I'm not trying to poo poo the problem by saying it's lag--Im trying to identify the reason so it can hopefully be fixed.

    But extending the range of our hits out even further or shrinking the range that zombies can hit even more is not going to fix the problem. It will just make SP easy button.

  15. #2160
    Fun Pimps Staff madmole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
    With single player you can scoot in, hit, and step back out of their contact range. This becomes a muscle memory so you know just how far back you have to go to evade the hit.

    When you switch to being a client in a P2P setting, this mechanism changes. It's really not about "my too far is your too close" - if you move the same distance as you would in a SP game, you'll get hit when you shouldn't.

    It's pretty subtle, but you can notice it by playing strictly melee in SP mode and getting used to the evasion timing and distance, and then joining a P2P game as a client. If you start up the game as the host, you won't see any problems.

    Please don't poo-poo this as being due to network lag, or not knowing where the optimal distance is for meleeing. It's an issue that's been around for ages, and it makes MP combat annoying.

    -A
    If you stick to one poison I think its fairly consistent. I played on the dedi and once I got used to it I was fine with it. Its the initial switch from SP to MP that makes it feel weird, but if you exclusively play MP you get used to it and its acceptable IMO.

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