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Thread: Another "direction of the game thread" and iam concerned...

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    Another "direction of the game thread" and iam concerned...

    Hello all and hello Pimps!

    I wanna start out by saying that i love this game and that is also the reason why i decided to write this post. Alpha 18 had me thinking about the direction of the game a bit so i wrote a post on steam starting out like this followed by discussions...

    "I miss the roaming zombies, random hordes and normal houses.
    I been playing 7DTD for a few years and 9 diff Alphas. I been trying out the new release of alpha 18 a bit and i really like how the world developed overall. Great job on the development devs!
    On specific terms however iam having a hard time enjoying the "dungeons" and sleeper zombies.
    A big aspect of the game dissapeared personally when it went from roaming zeds and hordes to almost just sleepers. I miss cleaning out a block from zombies to be able to enter a normal house and not a dungeon. Will that ever come back? As i recall alpha 15 was great on that aspect!!"

    Iam currently on day 55 and i barely see any roaming zombies at all, all there is, is the hordes on every 7th day. Takes some bullets to kill yes! Hard, only because of fps drop to 15-20, nothing else. Hard to spot, nope, they even glow nowadays...but why and from what? How are they radiated?

    I am currently playing Alpha 18.1 latest experimental and it really has me worried. It all changed a few aplhas ago from us players beeing kept busy all the time from roaming zeds to sleeper zombies instead, even smell sensor was removed. Me personally dont like it at all. I liked "the walking dead" feeling it had where we couldnt have food in the backpack, make noises or have the fire going at night cause they would smell you down and cause havoc. I liked how we were penalized for using guns instead of bow and arrow, now a silencer wont make a difference, ok, wake up a few zeds, so what?.
    I liked how it was a struggle and all free for us to do as we liked and prefered before. Now we are instead lead by our choices in skillpts and EXP-pts. Does it come to us, only every 7th day.other than that we have to go find it!. We are not disturbed anymore, we are the disturbers in hunt of EXP-pts and loot.

    I liked how it was "realistic" and had more logic to it before, where we looted tools in toolshops, weapons mostly in messiahs and food in the stores primarily. Ppls were in apocalyptic distress and left some stuff behind right? Now it makes no sense. All houses are suddenly dungeons (wellmade though) obviously created by the masterminds who lived in it?! Sleeperzombies are so smart they hide in the weirdest of places and even build themselves in!?...and in the end we come to the final room/area where the dungeonloot is, there is just no logic to it. Can be all from weapons etc to food and water. Every house contains the old shops combined and every house is/can be a goldmine.

    Me and my friend who i played this game with for a long time discussed a bit. None of us feel the need of building our own base anymore, whats the point? There is also so many diff gears and things we used to strive for to have or make that was needed, like steel, iron, concrete etc. No need anymore. Food, weapons, armor, all you need is found pretty easy in buildings. Only thing i really needed was the motorcycle for space and transport, thats about it.

    Conclusion is, i personally think the devs played the game before, i dont think they do much anymore. The turn the game of almost perfection created by the Pimps small team has taken leads me to almost think there is a new developmentgroup in charge?. You have created a wonderful world in a zombieapocalyptic era...but with less and less zombies and less challenge and feel of gameplay compared to before. Maybe my downfall is that i played to many Alphas?

    Best regards

    ThanVanMon

  2. #2
    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    I pretty much agree with everything you typed. Except the base-building bit; I still enjoy that, even though it is essentially pointless.

    But yeah the game is a mere shadow of its former greatness.

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    Tracker InSanity's Avatar
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    I am currently enjoying Alpha 18 but I do agree with several of the points you made, especially in regards to roaming zombies. I remember when I used to find a town and there would be hordes of zombies wandering the streets and I'd go clear out a bunch so I could loot some houses and then they'd smell me and wander in to find me. Another awesome thing was when it was the middle of the night and you're hiding in the attic of some house or the loft of a barn early on and all of a sudden a horde comes through that may or may not know if you're there. Now it seems to me that 80% of zombies are sleepers inside the pois that are all suddenly dungeons and besides the occasional zombies out and about plus the very rare (and small) hordes that come through it takes some of the fun out of exploring. I believe that if pois went back to being just normal houses for the most part and you took the sleepers from them and made them into wandering zombies out in the world it would help the overall atmosphere of the game alot in my opinion.

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    Colony Founder Jugginator's Avatar
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    What difficulty and gamestage are you all on? Tbh, I've seen progressively more and more wandering zombies the higher my gamestage goes - up to the point where I drive around and can't go a couple seconds without running into a few or a wandering pack. I still think it should be a bit more, perhaps earlier than what it has been anyway. Honestly, on the harder difficulties and horde night spawn counts I don't think you'd fare too well without a base, unless you spend a lot of time repairing POIs.

    I really feel you about sleepers. Tbh I don't like them at all, aside from maybe a few of them here and there for scares - that's always refreshing to have a jump scare time to time. But there really are just too many sleepers, although they reduced them, I think just having a lot inside there along sleepers here and there in surprise parts would make it more fun. All sleepers... meh. I'd prefer a "trigger spawn" of a random horde kinda like the supplies quests do to send some zombies into/around the POI you're in.

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    I think that A18 is the best alpha to date and that they *are* moving in the right direction. The game is enjoyable for SP. I cannot say much for MP as it's been a while since I've joined a MP game.

    Agree that the roaming zombies are very lacking in this version though. There isn't much of a threat at night time unless 1) it's early game and you're on the harder difficulty settings or 2) you get the roaming horde when you're out at night. They do need to add more zombies in the world in general outside of the POIs. Perhaps the higher the difficulty settings the more zombies there are wandering the streets and faster repops.

    The number of sleeper/hidden zombies are fine now compare to before. They've also reduced the number of dungeon house which is also a good change. I mean not all houses can have dungeons, right? Finding loot in houses is normal, however I do agree that there should be less final/super containers. I think the reason they added those was to allow trader quests.

    Eventually you have to build some kind of base or fortify an existing POI for horde night. I'm not talking about early game here, I'm talking about mid to late game where you get lots of radiated and demolishers. Well unless you're the type to just attack them right out in the open guns blazing. In that case all you have to do is get a lot of ammo.

    The only thing I'd like to add is the amount of experience required to get from one level to the next level should be looked at/balanced. I'm talking about at the higher levels. I get it, TFP doesn't want you to reach max level too soon. However, if people want that goal of reaching max level, let them. Don't make it too far out of reach.

  6. #6
    Nomad hotpoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jugginator View Post
    What difficulty and gamestage are you all on? Tbh, I've seen progressively more and more wandering zombies the higher my gamestage goes - up to the point where I drive around and can't go a couple seconds without running into a few or a wandering pack. I still think it should be a bit more, perhaps earlier than what it has been anyway. Honestly, on the harder difficulties and horde night spawn counts I don't think you'd fare too well without a base, unless you spend a lot of time repairing POIs.

    I really feel you about sleepers. Tbh I don't like them at all, aside from maybe a few of them here and there for scares - that's always refreshing to have a jump scare time to time. But there really are just too many sleepers, although they reduced them, I think just having a lot inside there along sleepers here and there in surprise parts would make it more fun. All sleepers... meh. I'd prefer a "trigger spawn" of a random horde kinda like the supplies quests do to send some zombies into/around the POI you're in.
    I haven't gotten to a high gamestage this playthrough, so maybe that is why the world seems empty. I think if there was some end game content (like world bosses, or runner hordes in dangerous hub cities), then TFP would not need to rely so much on gamestage to keep people playing.

    One thing I am super happy about is how much less zombies are stuffed into cupboards and crawl spaces compared to A17. I think TFP really listened on that point which makes me optimistic that they might also listen to the requests for end game content and more roaming zombies.

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    Inventor Kalarro's Avatar
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    I agree. While each recent alpha introduces awesome new stuff, the direction of the game isnt quite to my likeing.
    I also prefer romaing zombies to sleepers, normal POIs to dungeons, more emphasis on building and crafting, and so on. They are aiming for a more combat looter shooter game now, and I dont like that (I love looter shooters, but 7d2d cant compete with the good ones, while its the best building and crafting survival)
    Last edited by Kalarro; 11-04-2019 at 10:30 AM.

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    Colony Founder Jugginator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotpoon View Post
    I haven't gotten to a high gamestage this playthrough, so maybe that is why the world seems empty. I think if there was some end game content (like world bosses, or runner hordes in dangerous hub cities), then TFP would not need to rely so much on gamestage to keep people playing.

    One thing I am super happy about is how much less zombies are stuffed into cupboards and crawl spaces compared to A17. I think TFP really listened on that point which makes me optimistic that they might also listen to the requests for end game content and more roaming zombies.
    Yeah i'm being seriouswhen I say I believe it's tied to gamestage, at 300+ I was seeing tons everywhere. But I do feel you they should up it earlier, it wasn't untill about GS 190+ when I started seeing more. GS ~50 or day 7+ I think is nice.

    Yeah, the jump-scare zombies in A17 being in every single cupboard/closet was scary at first, then it was "Oh there's another one *poke* and anothe..and ano.. ano... another one.. another one ^3". Much more fun and scary when you expect it, then dont see it then get one lol. One of the devs for Half Life 1 said something about that with headcrabs in vents. "You see one and another, then you expect it every time. Then you don't find one, and don't find one again and forget about it. Then you drop 5 headcrabs out of a duct on top of the player and they get scared again" -- something like that. Been years since I read that lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jugginator View Post
    Yeah, the jump-scare zombies in A17 being in every single cupboard/closet was scary at first, then it was "Oh there's another one *poke* and anothe..and ano.. ano... another one.. another one ^3". Much more fun and scary when you expect it, then dont see it then get one lol. One of the devs for Half Life 1 said something about that with headcrabs in vents. "You see one and another, then you expect it every time. Then you don't find one, and don't find one again and forget about it. Then you drop 5 headcrabs out of a duct on top of the player and they get scared again" -- something like that. Been years since I read that lol.
    Man, it's such a bummer. When sleepers were first announced, everybody assumed they would be mixed in with normal, active zeds and actual dead bodies, to keep the player guessing about what to expect.

    Now you just move from sleeper cell to sleeper cell and pick them off (often while they're not even awake yet) before collecting your loot. The only surprises come when you're in a POI you haven't seen before and the floor gives away, but even that feels more like a one off cheap shot than a structural challenge.

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    Tracker Onarr's Avatar
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    Personally I see wandering hordes quite often in later game stages. I do however agree that night is not scary enough. It should be terifying. Default gamma should be lower best should prowl the night, more feral zombies come out, death around every corner. Bigger incentives for proper base would be cool.

    I also miss the wandering zeds in towns and cities. You get few of them there, which is not much. Towns feel empty and ways too safe. Its a bit immersion breaking. Would be nice if they relocated some sleeper to outside of PoI, so there are some in the streets and have larger wake up radius.

    However I believe devs play the game, at least Madmole seems to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarro View Post
    I agree. While each recent alpha introduces awesome new stuff, the direction of the game isnt quite to my likeing.
    I also prefer romaing zombies to sleepers, normal POIs to dungeons, more emphasis on building and crafting, and so on. They are aiming for a more combat looter shooter game now, and I dont like that (I love looter shooters, but 7d2d cant compete with the good ones, while its the best building and crafting survival)
    It has gone from a hardcore survival game to an RPG with som survival elements over the years.
    We are on day 58 in my save, iamt at gamestage 163 and my friend 180 i think.
    The reason why i dont think they play the game like we do is cause this game gets so boosted by the different mods. The modders ads in what they believe is missing. For example Starvation mod, my personal fav. Them are the boys Funpimps should approach and get feedback from. Man they were creative and skilled. They also created a beatiful game within the game for free! If you hear me Starvation team, its time to come back into the light!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Onarr View Post
    Personally I see wandering hordes quite often in later game stages. I do however agree that night is not scary enough. It should be terifying. Default gamma should be lower best should prowl the night, more feral zombies come out, death around every corner. Bigger incentives for proper base would be cool.

    I also miss the wandering zeds in towns and cities. You get few of them there, which is not much. Towns feel empty and ways too safe. Its a bit immersion breaking. Would be nice if they relocated some sleeper to outside of PoI, so there are some in the streets and have larger wake up radius.

    However I believe devs play the game, at least Madmole seems to.
    If they only could ad zombiesettings in the options. There should be a slider or setting for zombieamount on everyday basis too, not just bloodmoon. As for now we can set if they should be harder or not to kill. Thats not making something harder, just takes more time. And since most are sleepers inside buildings, why have a sniperrifle?, why use melee? They neutralized so many ways of playing the game cause basegame does not allow me to freely choose.

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    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThanVanMon View Post
    If they only could ad zombiesettings in the options. There should be a slider or setting for zombieamount on everyday basis too, not just bloodmoon. As for now we can set if they should be harder or not to kill. Thats not making something harder, just takes more time. And since most are sleepers inside buildings, why have a sniperrifle?, why use melee? They neutralized so many ways of playing the game cause basegame does not allow me to freely choose.
    Editing the XML's to provide for more zombies was pretty easy, and I've certainly noticed a difference since doing that.

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    Inventor Doctor3D's Avatar
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    I agree with just about everything you said OP. Everyone in my household used to play this game religiously because of all those things the game used to have, but now no one wants to play it because of all the changes. We just can't play it anymore.

    The excessive dungeons with sleepers, the lack of walking dead in cities and towns, the focus on pure guns since noise doesn't even seem to affect anything unless they are right next to you, there's way too much loot gold mines, the crafting is not as fun, the zombies don't act like zombies..

    There is so much awesome stuff in the game and it has lots of potential. But, they took out a lot of the core things that originally drew me into the game and no amount of cool toys to play with is going to keep my attention like the original survival aspects did.

    My favorite parts of 7DTD were the feeling of being rushed to get everything together before each day 7 - and when you start you're struggling to even find a cooking pot (this was long ago, even in A15 - they had cooking pots at every tent site) you had to clear towns in order to even get in the building, and you might get unlucky and find nothing of use in the POI (now POIs are swimming in loot) - shooting a gun or carrying raw meat could get you in trouble (Now you can run through POIs full auto like playing quake) The wasteland was nearly impossible to get into until you got the gear (it was completely saturated with dogs, cops and very dangerous - it was kind of an end-game area to get to and a goal) -

    The building felt much more realistic and immersive back then (for example when you made the rebar, you put the osb around it, then poured the concrete into the rebar, and if you wanted to rebuild with another material class, you had to tear out that section so it forced to you to plan ahead) now you just use the magic nail-gun and automatically upgrade from wood all the way to steel. You can pretty much go straight to cobblestone on your first base now, all other material types are essentially useless. Before, you could start with a wood structure and be ok for a bit, and then you'd either build around or modify it with better materials. At one point, they even had mud huts as a viable night-time structure that you could throw up at night as a quick early non-7-day outpost to hold up in.

    The worlds used to be infiniteֿֿ in size. While some may think worlds that big are just useless, I had a lot of fun in the big worlds in coop because we could be literal in-game days travel apart which was just a cool aspect of the game. The biomes were huge and you could get lost in them. There were more types of biomes to play in.

    A lot of things made more immersive sense - i.e didn't take 5 pieces of raw meat before you could actually eat it. You couldn't just put a vehicle in your pocket and spit it out and jump in anytime you got in trouble - you had to be mindful about where you placed it so that you could get to it in the event you got int trouble such as when a dog horde showed up. Now if you're stuck on a roof - just drive off it.

    Mining was more meaningful and necessary. I know a lot of people hated mining..but now there's virtually no need to mine much at all. You can get plenty from the surface and from all the loot you scrap - any deficits in material can now just be had from the trader anyway.

    So many things that have pushed me away from what was once one of the most fun and addicting games I've ever played.
    Last edited by Doctor3D; 11-04-2019 at 12:35 PM.

  15. #15
    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jugginator View Post
    What difficulty and gamestage are you all on? Tbh, I've seen progressively more and more wandering zombies the higher my gamestage goes - up to the point where I drive around and can't go a couple seconds without running into a few or a wandering pack.
    To the best of my knowledge, gamestage does not affect wandering zombie numbers, and as for wandering hordes, you get 2 per day and their contents are random, not GS-based (and pathetic to boot). Also, it is very easy to never encounter them as they spawn near the player and wander in his general direction. So a mobile player can easily miss them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PPanda0421 View Post
    Agree that the roaming zombies are very lacking in this version though. There isn't much of a threat at night time unless 1) it's early game and you're on the harder difficulty settings or 2) you get the roaming horde when you're out at night. They do need to add more zombies in the world in general outside of the POIs.
    This is the first alpha where we have simply ignored nightfall. If out looting or exploring or whatever we just keep going. Night is no threat now. The days of finding a house to hole up (outside day 1 or day 2) or returning to your base to pass the night in safety are LONG GONE. It's a crying shame.

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