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Thread: XP to next level needs to be scaled better (2,234 zombie kills for 1 level is insane)

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    XP to next level needs to be scaled better (2,234 zombie kills for 1 level is insane)

    We noticed on our server that once you reached lvl 80, leveling became insanely difficult. From lvl 93-94, I require 2,340 zombie kills. For a single level. Keep in mind that the core attribute perks require 2, then 3 points per level towards the end. Even with the bare basic skills allocated, I am no where close to rank 10 for most of them (which is fine), but it's as good as impossible to gain sufficient points. To go from rank 7 to 10 for STR, I need 8 more skill points. If a single skill point requires 2,340 zombie kills, and the xp to next level scales exponentially (or so it seems) with each level, I will need in far excess of 18,720 zombie kills to max out STR. That is as good as impossible, especially without console cmd spawns. Yes, I know that there are other ways of getting exp, but I am using zombie kills as a consolidated unit of exp. That is JUST STR. The implementation of a max level of 300 or even 5/5 bartering is insane if you have any hope of being able to harvest crops, or loot anything better than a quality of 0 or cut down a tree within 5 minutes.

    So here is my question. If progress is already gated by increasingly high "XPs required to next level", why is it ALSO gated in the perk menu where higher ranks require more skill points? This is a double penalty system which makes high ranks nigh unattainable. Seriously nerf the "xp to next level" scaling OR make high rank stat points still worth only 1 skill point. Keeping both measures in place severely debilitates any progress past lvl 85.

    P.S. It took me over a week to lvl from 85-86. The following levels to 93 were gained through excessive DM mode killings/upgrades etc to test xp scaling. So in equivalent terms, 8+ weeks to level STR from 7-10 is a level of pacing that I find ridiculous for a game that's not an mmorpg.
    Last edited by dex314; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:09 AM.

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    Ranger theFlu's Avatar
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    That Fergettin' Elixir is starting to look mighty cheap

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    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    I think the point is to level cap the player without applying an actual level cap. I'm not sure if they feel that Level 80 should be that cap or whether it should be higher than that but they do, as game designers, believe that it is better to not be able to max all skills out in a single playthrough.

    They used to have an actual cap and then decided to remove it and let math take care of it for pretty much all but the most obsessed player who might be willing to play the same save for years in order to get it all-- although someone recently showed mathematically that it would have to be his children's children who would need to finish it up for him...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    I think the point is to level cap the player without applying an actual level cap. I'm not sure if they feel that Level 80 should be that cap or whether it should be higher than that but they do, as game designers, believe that it is better to not be able to max all skills out in a single playthrough.

    They used to have an actual cap and then decided to remove it and let math take care of it for pretty much all but the most obsessed player who might be willing to play the same save for years in order to get it all-- although someone recently showed mathematically that it would have to be his children's children who would need to finish it up for him...
    Haha yea the timing on that sounds about right. And I agree with the notion of an unspoken cap with an endless mathematical possibility. My issue however is that as you max out you should experience the joys of multiple play options. As it is now, you have to choose the one weapon you want to use. If you are a machine gunner and want to use a marksman rifle for a day, at base stats it takes you 12 seconds to aim at a target 20 meters away. Essentially, marksman rifles are useless for people who dont spec into them. So the pimp's end result for implementing the need to specialize is in fact more about restriction. While choice is fun, as in choosing your playstyle, excessive restrictions are stifling.

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    The thing is, the level is actually increasing the difficulty of the game. I have been searching the gamestage.xml and realised a few things.
    First, the game stage decides how many zombies can be spawned by scouts .
    It increases the size of the bloodmoon horde.
    It increases the max number of zombies it can spawn (but I guess won't because it can't possibly spawn 300 zombies).
    It also seems to increase the chance of dropping loot from the zombies.

    Leveling up should be allowed at a higher pace and it should also affect how more difficult game stage is and how much loot you get out of zombies.

    I edited both progress and gamestage to 800+ and it appears I get a loot bag every few zombie kill but the scouts also bring a lot of irradiated zombies with them.

    But I now require a wooping 200,000 experience to level up from 61 to 62 and I don't know how to reset the experience points needed to get to the next level.


    Edit: Correction, I don't get a loot bag every other zombie kill. It appears the xml file is misleading.
    Last edited by Hollowprime; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:02 AM.

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    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    So how many extra skill points are we talking for your example to be able to use that marksman rifle effectively? 20-25?

    That could be handled by changing the math so it doesn't start getting ludicrous to level up until about level 105 or maybe they could give skillpoint bonuses for surviving a hordenight with a certain bodycount. I think it would be nice to have skillpoint rewards somehow added to the game so that it isn't solely from leveling up that you get "training".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    So how many extra skill points are we talking for your example to be able to use that marksman rifle effectively? 20-25?

    That could be handled by changing the math so it doesn't start getting ludicrous to level up until about level 105 or maybe they could give skillpoint bonuses for surviving a hordenight with a certain bodycount. I think it would be nice to have skillpoint rewards somehow added to the game so that it isn't solely from leveling up that you get "training".
    I agree. If the softcap (level feasibly attainable) was increased from 85 to 100, it would solve a lot of problems. There are certain basics that you need in order to not shoot yourself in the head--mining and resource skills for one. Those are a given if you hope to make any leeway, but you shouldn't be unable to attain a 5/5 in another skill just because you chose basic skills to make the game bearable.

    I do like your idea of skill points being awarded in other ways (like the old quests) but that becomes tricky since they're trying to make end game levels hard. A source of points that doesn't scale in difficulty could throw off the progression, though I'm confident few if any players would mind.

    Edit: At my current status, Perception is ranked 5. To have a 60% reduction in aim time would require about 18 skill points.
    Last edited by dex314; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:17 AM.

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    Right up at the very top of the "progression.xml" file it shows the exponent multiplier for levelling. A17 was 1.0149. A18 is 1.05.

    I've changed mine so that A18's reads 1.03, though I've also changed paper quests to award 1 skill point upon completion (right now those quests are beyond worthless, and that change makes them worth detouring to finish), and I find the combination of the two is too much for my personal tastes, so I'll probably use 1 or the other (either 1.03 leveling exponent and no skill points, or default 1.05 and 1 skill point per paper quest)

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    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    They just announced in the patch notes for A18.2 that after level 60 there will be cap on xp needed to reach the next level so there you go. No more f(x) approaching infinity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    They just announced in the patch notes for A18.2 that after level 60 there will be cap on xp needed to reach the next level so there you go. No more f(x) approaching infinity.
    Oh hey that's great news! I'm not sure how I missed that. Thanks Roland! Also, points for the function reference

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    Colony Founder Scyris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    So how many extra skill points are we talking for your example to be able to use that marksman rifle effectively? 20-25?

    That could be handled by changing the math so it doesn't start getting ludicrous to level up until about level 105 or maybe they could give skillpoint bonuses for surviving a hordenight with a certain bodycount. I think it would be nice to have skillpoint rewards somehow added to the game so that it isn't solely from leveling up that you get "training".
    Darkness Falls has this, it has custom skill books that add to the learn by doing skills and with the schematics, you can scrap these into skill notes, at a Writing Table you can turn 80 skill notes into a book that awards 1 generic perk point to spend however you like on perks you can also VERY rarely loot the +1 perk point book too. Each book/schematic scraps into 3 skill notes generally. Also that 80 skill note cost is with the writing tables bonus of halfing the mat costs, without it, it'd be 160 skill notes+double the other mats, even so you have to scrap 27 things minimum to have enough skill notes to make the 1 skill point book so its fairly balanced.

    I also am not a big fan of how lving works in a18, its just too slow once you hit the 40's. This is bad because once your establish yourself the game really lacks anything else to do currently at least in Single player. I tend to get bored before I hit lv 50, as by then I have all t5-6 stuff unlimited food and water, and anything else I need so there is no real point to keep going.

    I play dead is dead, and in a18 I generally quit out of boredom before I die. I actually had my first death to a zombie in a18 earlier today. Got cornered by 3+ radiated zombies including a biker, those Bikers are friggin FAST when feral holy crap lol. Sledgehammers knockdown was failing me too, they just refused to get knocked down so I could get out of the pack. Also shouldn't have tried to kill them with a unperked pistol with no rad remover mod, so it was mostly my fault for doing something stupid, I was half asleep and not thinking irl at the time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    They just announced in the patch notes for A18.2 that after level 60 there will be cap on xp needed to reach the next level so there you go. No more f(x) approaching infinity.
    Thats good, that should help with the issue.

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    i dont see the very issue about leveling up i mean once your 50+ even 60+ that is game over everything after that is garentueed like cement exp digging maintaining.. you should really be decked out by this time by a mile.

    like i am on day 9 and i already found the exlir from granpa and the car chassi... only thing now is to make that within 1 week and now i have a mobile station? freedom is too whom can think what freedom really is imo. sure ill make a zombie base week 3 and from there grind.

    at day 3 i had tier 3-4 weapons so either i am lucky lootering this too hard with only 2 points or i am very lucky.

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