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Thread: Cooking has now become obsolete

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    I hope the devs listen to this and make it so that there is no stamina consequence for a nice margin of food consumption—sayy, for example, from 150 to 100 there would be no stamina drain at all. A nice margin like that would mean a good amount of time before needing to eat and then eating a meal that added up to 50-60 fullness would make sense.

    If only....
    Not that I disagree, but wouldn't you get that buffer from over eating? I eat a stew or 2 every morning and have a really nice buffer of food. Unless I'm mining all day, I generally don't have to eat again that day.

  2. #242
    Nomad theFlu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    I hope the devs listen to this and make it so that there is no stamina consequence for a nice margin of food consumption—sayy, for example, from 150 to 100 there would be no stamina drain at all. A nice margin like that would mean a good amount of time before needing to eat and then eating a meal that added up to 50-60 fullness would make sense.

    If only....
    "If only the UI reflected that in a way that one can understand it"?

  3. #243
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalen View Post
    Not that I disagree, but wouldn't you get that buffer from over eating? I eat a stew or 2 every morning and have a really nice buffer of food. Unless I'm mining all day, I generally don't have to eat again that day.


    Quote Originally Posted by theFlu View Post
    "If only the UI reflected that in a way that one can understand it"?
    I agree that an indication on the bar showing the amount above max stamina would be helpful—but in your case and mine we both already DO understand it.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesel Weppen View Post
    I suggest implementing spoilable food by increasing the food poisoning chance over the age of the meal. :P
    I agree and this could go further as I stated before, by needing refrigeration for fresh food. You could start with a ice cooler and some snow or ice and this would keep fresh food for about 3-5 days, upgrade to a beverage cooler and you can keep fresh food for 7-10 days, then have the food poisoning and maybe other effects as well based on how long the food has spoiled after the 3-5 days for the ice cooler and 7-10 days for the beverage cooler (or hopefully another fridge like in A16). Then the food poisoning chance would be based on how long the food has spoiled.

    I would like to see expiration dates on canned goods as well, given a date on the can food from say 2-24 weeks or something based randomly and after the expiration date you can get food poisoning at that point on, say 1% chance 1 week after expiration and accumulating the chance every day or week from then on.

    This would put the food poisoning to a realistic real world system and make it a little more challenging as well, by needed to keep an eye on your food.

    Spoiler: 
    As a side note people that screw with other peoples food are the scum of the earth, this is from experience.

    Sorry but I have had this happen all the time when I buy food at stores and eat out. these people are some of the lowest form of garbage that exists.

    I have eaten some things that were made for me in restaurants that would make someone literally sick if it happening to them, there is no excuse for this
    Last edited by bobrpggamer; 11-26-2019 at 05:15 PM.

  5. #245
    Colony Founder Viktoriusiii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    I hope the devs listen to this and make it so that there is no stamina consequence for a nice margin of food consumption—sayy, for example, from 150 to 100 there would be no stamina drain at all. A nice margin like that would mean a good amount of time before needing to eat and then eating a meal that added up to 50-60 fullness would make sense.

    If only....
    I get the sarcasm. And I like the overeating mechanic as well. But lets be absolutely real here.
    Lets say I do not have any more vitamins, since I already used them all, because I don't go into fortitude.
    I have 160stamina (210 effectively) and I come home after one day of mining.
    I am now at 40 stamina. I need 3 of the top tier foods (chili dogs or sham chowder) to be full again.
    That is a near 12% chance of needing to eat double that. Okay its fine, but the question is:

    WHAT is the gameplay purpose?
    This is the best food you can get. so every 10 days you are going to get food poisoning (roughly), where is the benefit here?
    WHAT does this add to the game, except that it is a ressource dump?
    THIS should be the real question. What does this system add? And could it be so much more?
    Again and again, because I feel like its beeing ignored when I say that:
    I like food poisoning. I was one of the first who said that it would be the only way to validate cans.
    I always play on the highest difficulty and rarely ever die. I like to have a challenge.

    What I am saying is, that this food poisoning, how it is currently implemented IS NOT FUN.
    It is not a challenge, since I always have enough back up food. And it does not add anything but frustration and a ressource dump.
    And the worst thing is, that it is random. So there is no way to plan for it. Either you waste a vitamin pill for 2 stews or you are rolling the dice twice.

    You said you didn't like the current version either. So why are you still defending it as if its the greatest thing since blood moon?

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post




    I agree that an indication on the bar showing the amount above max stamina would be helpful—but in your case and mine we both already DO understand it.
    Wow... how did I miss your sarcasm? I guess I'm just getting used to general disagreement. I feel shame.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post

    WHAT is the gameplay purpose?
    To make you make decisions. Buy iron gut, find more vitamins, stick to canned foods.... etc.

    What I am saying is, that this food poisoning, how it is currently implemented IS NOT FUN.

    It's been said before many of the challenges in the game are not fun. Reloading a weapon is not fun... waiting for a broken leg to heal is not fun.... blowing up your gyrocopter with a stray shot is not fun.

    But thats what a survival game is, isn't it? Dealing with unexpected situations.... sometimes by doing something creative.... sometimes by just stockpiling more food than you think you're going to need.

  8. #248
    Fun Pimps Staff Gazz's Avatar
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    Well, yeah. Not everything in the game is "fun".
    Zombies doing damage to you is not fun but I don't see a lot of players asking for that to stop. =P

  9. #249
    Colony Founder ZombieSurvivor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazz View Post
    Well, yeah. Not everything in the game is "fun".
    Zombies doing damage to you is not fun but I don't see a lot of players asking for that to stop. =P
    Really lol..... Lots of good points have been brought up in this thread. just sayin'.

  10. #250
    Colony Founder Viktoriusiii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazz View Post
    Well, yeah. Not everything in the game is "fun".
    Zombies doing damage to you is not fun but I don't see a lot of players asking for that to stop. =P
    That is the biggest pile of bull I think I've ever read from you... and I was there in your edgy phase

    I know you are just handwaving me away with a ridicoulus example, but lets take them at face value and compare them, shall we?

    Zombies doing damage to you:

    1. does it add to the challenge? (since all of you think that is the only important question for a mechanic in a survival game)
    Yes. For obvious reasons.
    2. does it add to the gameplay and does it connect to other mechanics??
    Yes. Death is a possibility so you will be more cautious, you will try and dodge and predict zombie swings, you will sneak and you will need to heal. (so healing all the perks, sneaking, sound, xp and more)
    3. Is there counterplay to beeing hit?
    Yes. Playing cautiously and preparing well means you are nearly never hit and if you are, if you are only hit once or twice it doesnt matter all that much. Healing can be done via so many methods (healing items are abundant, food heals you, perks heal you, fortified grip heals you...) *edit*also armor/movespeed, how much ammo do you have and much more.
    4. Is it fun? If you overcome the challenge and stand tall at the end of a Tier V building or hordenight YES it does. Otherwise you'd just stand still and shoot.

    now lets take food poisoning:

    1. does it add to the challenge?
    Meh... probably for the majority. I personally never run out of food, even if I try, but I'm not the majority so I'll say yes.
    2. does it add to the gameplay and does it connect to other mechanics?
    No. You just have to eat more of it. Meaning the only thing it does do is more challenge. Maybe vitamins and one specific perk.
    3. Is there counterplay?
    Only if you count prevention (that you can not always do and never feels like you need it since the chance is so small) with vitamins or iron gut. If you have it, the only thing you can do is eat again.
    4. Is it fun? No. I do not feel like I did something special after not beeing food poisoned. I do not feel special for "wasting" vitamins or perkpoints.


    So there. Beeing hit is well integrated into this game, connects well to other mechanics, is rewarding, changes the playstyle, has counterplay and is fun when overcome.
    Food poisoning... is a ressource dump to artificially create challenge where there is none.


    Thank you for your time, I'm here all week.
    Last edited by Viktoriusiii; 11-26-2019 at 07:41 PM.

  11. #251
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    now lets take food poisoning:

    1. does it add to the challenge?
    Meh... probably for the majority. I personally never run out of food, even if I try, but I'm not the majority so I'll say yes.
    2. does it add to the gameplay and does it connect to other mechanics?
    No. You just have to eat more of it. Meaning the only thing it does do is more challenge. Maybe vitamins and one specific perk.
    3. Is there counterplay?
    Only if you count prevention (that you can not always do and never feels like you need it since the chance is so small) with vitamins or iron gut. If you have it, the only thing you can do is eat again.
    4. Is it fun? No. I do not feel like I did something special after not beeing food poisoned. I do not feel special for "wasting" vitamins or perkpoints.
    1) Does it add to the challenge?

    It can situationally. For example, in the early days when you don't have backup food and then you are suddenly thrust into panic mode and the plans you had get supplanted by the immediate survival goal of not starving. Or if you don't plan well and are caught mid quest with a now empty stomach and no food to try and complete the rest of the quest. That is the thing about survival games--if you make an error in judgement you run the risk of getting caught flat footed against random bad events-- unless there are no random bad events because someone has no tolerance for punishment of any kind in a game...

    2) Does it add to the gameplay?

    Again it definitely can depending on your preparation and caution. Not everyone is always prepared and not everyone remembers to be cautious all the time so when player error happens and then vomiting follows there can be some tense gameplay and anxiety about getting back to fullness again. You know...just like getting hit by a zombie. If you have bandages set on your belt and/or some pills and water on hand then there is really no gameplay to speak of more than what you mentioned. Pop a pill and drink some water or use a bandage and there is no challenge. But....get caught without those preparations and now you are trying to finish a quest without getting hit even once again and that brings the challenge.

    3) Is there counterplay?

    The vomit itself is like a huge hit from a zombie. You don't counterplay off of the hit itself you recover your health after the damage is applied and that is the counterplay. Sometimes it will be easy because you are well prepared. Sometimes it will be more challenging because you have to run back to your base for extra medical supplies and every vulture will be attracted to you on the way. Same with vomit. The vomit event happens and then your stamina and recovery stats take a big hit and the counterplay is recovering. If you have a bunch of canned food or more cooked meals right away then there is no challenge-- but if you don't then you're going to experience some challenging disruption to your current plans as you work to recover. Even though food poisoning seems closer in concept to being infected than it does to taking physical damage in practice it is nothing like infection. It is a single instant event like getting hit and not an ongoing effect like infection so you can't really accurately compare the counterplay of food poisoning to infection because they are unlike each other.

    4) Is it fun?

    Shame on you. Of course it is fun for those who like it and unfun for those who don't. I personally love the uncertainty I feel when I eat now and when I successfully get my fullness back up to above my stamina max without vomiting I feel a pleasing relief. And when it does happen I will recover however I can and my plans will get disrupted which could lead to other mistakes which could cause the game to suddenly get very challenging.

    5) Is it a punishment?

    Damn straight. Get used to it. Not every event in the game is designed to make you feel special. Sometimes you just get hammered and then the striving to recover is its own intrinsic reward if you are successful.

    I'm here all week and twice on Tuesdays.

  12. #252
    Colony Founder Viktoriusiii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    1) Does it add to the challenge?

    It can situationally. For example, in the early days when you don't have backup food and then you are suddenly thrust into panic mode and the plans you had get supplanted by the immediate survival goal of not starving. Or if you don't plan well and are caught mid quest with a now empty stomach and no food to try and complete the rest of the quest. That is the thing about survival games--if you make an error in judgement you run the risk of getting caught flat footed against random bad events-- unless there are no random bad events because someone has no tolerance for punishment of any kind in a game...

    as i said.

    2) Does it add to the gameplay?

    Again it definitely can depending on your preparation and caution. Not everyone is always prepared and not everyone remembers to be cautious all the time so when player error happens and then vomiting follows there can be some tense gameplay and anxiety about getting back to fullness again. You know...just like getting hit by a zombie. If you have bandages set on your belt and/or some pills and water on hand then there is really no gameplay to speak of more than what you mentioned. Pop a pill and drink some water or use a bandage and there is no challenge. But....get caught without those preparations and now you are trying to finish a quest without getting hit even once again and that brings the challenge.

    there is something profoundly different between a zombiehit and health and food. As I said taking hits will always be a threat and can always be counterplayed, early and lategame.
    The punishment is having only 30 stamina, which does nothing except slow the game down. You can't run anymore, you cant get ressources anymore, and everything feels sluggish (the reason why death penalty in A17 was so hated) so even when we say you don't have the food to refill yourself, it is only a punishment that slows you down, but you do not feel that beeing rng'ed is a good reason for it.


    3) Is there counterplay?

    The vomit itself is like a huge hit from a zombie. You don't counterplay off of the hit itself you recover your health after the damage is applied and that is the counterplay. Sometimes it will be easy because you are well prepared. Sometimes it will be more challenging because you have to run back to your base for extra medical supplies and every vulture will be attracted to you on the way. Same with vomit. The vomit event happens and then your stamina and recovery stats take a big hit and the counterplay is recovering. If you have a bunch of canned food or more cooked meals right away then there is no challenge-- but if you don't then you're going to experience some challenging disruption to your current plans as you work to recover. Even though food poisoning seems closer in concept to being infected than it does to taking physical damage in practice it is nothing like infection. It is a single instant event like getting hit and not an ongoing effect like infection so you can't really accurately compare the counterplay of food poisoning to infection because they are unlike each other.
    but you only eat in your base, because of it. Everyone who doesnt is... sorry... stupid. Don't eat while outside. Its not worth it, in no situation except if you already are starving.
    And all you just said was "its challenging in the first few days, but only annoying after" which is exactly my point. The way I'd implement it would always give a counterplay and would still inflict a sense of dread if you can't get it checked.


    4) Is it fun?

    Shame on you. Of course it is fun for those who like it and unfun for those who don't. I personally love the uncertainty I feel when I eat now and when I successfully get my fullness back up to above my stamina max without vomiting I feel a pleasing relief. And when it does happen I will recover however I can and my plans will get disrupted which could lead to other mistakes which could cause the game to suddenly get very challenging.

    yes yes fun is subjective. But there is a general concensus. Just because some ppl like bdsm doesnt mean its fun to get hit. It is generally considered as a bad thing. Same here. You might like the anxiety coming from rolling the dice, but RNG punishment is one of the worst ways to increase difficulty, since its never fair.

    5) Is it a punishment?

    Damn straight. Get used to it. Not every event in the game is designed to make you feel special. Sometimes you just get hammered and then the striving to recover is its own intrinsic reward if you are successful.

    And this is where you are wrong. EVERYTHING in gamedevelopment is meant to bring fun in one way or another. And I mean everything. They differ in the exact same way, but just think about this example:
    Dark Souls is generally considered a pretty hard game. But no matter how hard, it is always meant as an obstacle for the player to overcome and feel special.
    Now if there were an rng chance that every second you could randomly die if you do not wear a specific armor or bought a specific item... would that feel good? Would you feel rewarded NOT dying randomly?
    There are certain survival games that try to make the players life miserable. They spawn enemies you are not able to defeat yet, they punish you for random events, but this is because that is the main draw of the game (thinking of dont starve, since its the only game that I could think of that remotely ♥♥♥♥s with the player on a randomized basis).
    BUT that is the whole point of the game. You always need to be on edge and will probably never be 100% prepared.
    Every event has a narrative purpose and is meant to give you memorable moments.

    And this is where this food poisoning fails. It is a nothing element. Sure punishing, but I won't remember when I was struggling for food and got food poisoning in the first week, because all it does is reduce the food even more.
    What I will remember is how zombies broke in my base and I fought for my life. How I overcame the odds and stood tall. Not how I crawled on all four hoping to finally find some food so I could move around normally again.


    I'm here all week and twice on Tuesdays.
    Again. Not against punishing the player. Nothing against obstacles. But they need to be balanced, fair (easy=/= fair) and need to give a sort of accomplishment when overcome.
    This foodpoisoning does give you a challenge on day 1-7, but even then you can just buy canned food... which misses the whole point.


    What this system is MEANT to do (or at least how I think it is meant to be) is that you should have canned foods as a great alternative (25-40 food), but they are rare and give no benefits. Cooked food should always give benefits (+5 stamina for 30 min; +5 to loot in the next hour; whatever) and should give the same amount of stamina BUT have food poisoning. This you can either prevent by using vitamins/perks OR after you got it (either antibiotics or some other way that slows it down). Also it should be more integral to the gameplay.
    All you basicially said was: "but there is a small bit of it..." but it could be so much more, instead of this half finished, annoying system that adds nothing.

    I take it back... I might need a break after explaining something so obvious to someone who seems to just wants to go against me for the sake of going against me.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    Again. Not against punishing the player. Nothing against obstacles. But they need to be balanced, fair (easy=/= fair) and need to give a sort of accomplishment when overcome.
    This foodpoisoning does give you a challenge on day 1-7, but even then you can just buy canned food... which misses the whole point.


    What this system is MEANT to do (or at least how I think it is meant to be) is that you should have canned foods as a great alternative (25-40 food), but they are rare and give no benefits. Cooked food should always give benefits (+5 stamina for 30 min; +5 to loot in the next hour; whatever) and should give the same amount of stamina BUT have food poisoning. This you can either prevent by using vitamins/perks OR after you got it (either antibiotics or some other way that slows it down). Also it should be more integral to the gameplay.
    All you basicially said was: "but there is a small bit of it..." but it could be so much more, instead of this half finished, annoying system that adds nothing.

    I take it back... I might need a break after explaining something so obvious to someone who seems to just wants to go against me for the sake of going against me.
    I believe its already been stated that food is not finished and cooked food will indeed provide additional benefits at some point. So you can rest easy.

  14. #254
    Reconstructionist Dimpy's Avatar
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    @Viktoriuski It sounds like your problem is that food acquisition is so trivial for you that the inconvenience of having to eat more after food poisoning and being crippled is worse than the extra effort you have to spend getting that food.

  15. #255
    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Cooking is simply a work in progress. The current state is not the intended final version. The plan is to create a multitude of recipes beyond what we already have that involve the use of the canned foods as at least one of the components in the recipe. Cooked dishes will have special buffs and benefits that last for a period of time when you eat them which will make the risk of food poisoning worth it in order to be able to use those foods.
    Those buffs will have to mind-blowing or else this would be a major waste of time and effort. Wellness used to make recipes matter a lot. But like all the great things that used to be in the game, it was replaced by inferior mechanics. Food and recipes mean nothing now.

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