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Thread: A18 Optimization issues persist. 130 FPS indoors to 10 FPS outside

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    A18 Optimization issues persist. 130 FPS indoors to 10 FPS outside

    Several of us on our server are still having optimization issues for a18. In a17 we could run textures on max and high settings with a consistent 100+ FPS. Now certain terrain textures cause massive fps drops. Even after turning all settings on low (esp texture filtering), full texture size still results in 130 fps indoors and only 10 fps outside. This is bizarre and cannot be considered normal. GPU / CPU temperatures are all nice and cool.

    I have attached a link with 3 images showing the wildly varying FPS rates based on location.

    https://imgur.com/a/0OHIll0

    Anyways, a18 has been a blast otherwise. Keep up the amazing work.
    Also, those demo zombies are my favorites.

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    Zombie Hunter Jarod_Silverstar's Avatar
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    I have something of the opposite problem, running high graphics and my FPS stays pretty steady in the 50-60 range anywhere but I get a lot more heat generated when outdoors.
    As I understand the prefab POIs have some type of occlusion so that the more distant terrain is not drawn. That would explain why you see better performance inside. But this only seems to work right on the prefab POIs, if I build my own or when digging underground the distant terrain appears to still be drawn despite blocks that ought to have occlusion.
    One interesting note however, even outdoors, if you look straight up at the sky performance appears to return to return to normal, again, probably because there is no distant terrain to be drawn.

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    Colony Founder ZombieSurvivor's Avatar
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    I'm hunting down a bug I believe, with 99% confidence exists, that is causing a massive massive plummet in FPS when going from indoors to out doors and or exploring more than 2 biomes in one sitting (A18.1 dedicated server) needing a restart of the game to fix or some times just logging out the server and then back in will fix it. I just started the hunt last night...something is up and I feel its a bug.

    I have a few videos all streamed in the past few days showing this happening on twitch, its very annoying having to restart the game just to get the fps back to a stable 50 for me.
    Spoiler: 


    Quote Originally Posted by faatal View Post
    Reduced Textures to Half is currently the best way to ensure textures are in VRAM.
    explains why this only started happening after I switched back to full textures. *Check*
    Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 11-28-2019 at 04:24 PM.

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    First off, did you build that in image 3? I have yet to come across anything that looks like that. And if you did build that it is amazing and puts my simple square box of a base to shame lol.

    I have also had a lot of fps problems with this patch. I am able to play every game I find on Ultra settings and played A17 on the highest settings. Loaded up A18 and had to drop everything to medium or lower to be able to play at all. I can be at 60 fps, turn around and drop down to 1 in the blink of an eye. I'm not sure what they changed in between these two builds but I have definitely noticed a difference.

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    Fun Pimps Staff faatal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dex314 View Post
    Several of us on our server are still having optimization issues for a18. In a17 we could run textures on max and high settings with a consistent 100+ FPS. Now certain terrain textures cause massive fps drops. Even after turning all settings on low (esp texture filtering), full texture size still results in 130 fps indoors and only 10 fps outside. This is bizarre and cannot be considered normal. GPU / CPU temperatures are all nice and cool.

    I have attached a link with 3 images showing the wildly varying FPS rates based on location.

    https://imgur.com/a/0OHIll0

    Anyways, a18 has been a blast otherwise. Keep up the amazing work.
    Also, those demo zombies are my favorites.
    A18 terrain shader does a lot of calculations. It uses 3 texture atlases of 24 textures each. If some or all of those atlases don't get loaded into VRAM, because you don't have space, then rendering those terrain pixels gets very slow. Generally you need 6 GB+ VRAM at Full quality otherwise they may or may not be in VRAM. That is controlled internally by Unity and there is no way to change its behavior or even determine what type of RAM a texture is in. The OS and certain programs will also use some VRAM.

    Reducing Texture Filtering can help since higher filtering is using a lot more texture reads.

    Reduced Textures to Half is currently the best way to ensure textures are in VRAM.

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    Fun Pimps Staff faatal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarod_Silverstar View Post
    I have something of the opposite problem, running high graphics and my FPS stays pretty steady in the 50-60 range anywhere but I get a lot more heat generated when outdoors.
    As I understand the prefab POIs have some type of occlusion so that the more distant terrain is not drawn. That would explain why you see better performance inside. But this only seems to work right on the prefab POIs, if I build my own or when digging underground the distant terrain appears to still be drawn despite blocks that ought to have occlusion.
    One interesting note however, even outdoors, if you look straight up at the sky performance appears to return to return to normal, again, probably because there is no distant terrain to be drawn.
    Distance terrain is not tracked by the occlusion system, so never occluded.

    Every pixel has a rendering cost which is generally related to the pixel shader being used to calculate it. Sky pixels are cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faatal View Post
    A18 terrain shader does a lot of calculations. It uses 3 texture atlases of 24 textures each. If some or all of those atlases don't get loaded into VRAM, because you don't have space, then rendering those terrain pixels gets very slow. Generally you need 6 GB+ VRAM at Full quality otherwise they may or may not be in VRAM. That is controlled internally by Unity and there is no way to change its behavior or even determine what type of RAM a texture is in. The OS and certain programs will also use some VRAM.

    Reducing Texture Filtering can help since higher filtering is using a lot more texture reads.

    Reduced Textures to Half is currently the best way to ensure textures are in VRAM.
    Finally some real info! We need more of this. I am currently shopping for a new GFX card mainly for this game and was stuck between the 1660ti (6gb) and the 2060 Super (8gb). I was already worried that the 6 gb on the 1660 wouldn't be enough and this pretty much confirms it as I want a little extra head room. 2060 Super it is.

    This really helps people out as many are willing to spend the money to run this great game yet simply don't know what the game needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faatal View Post
    A18 terrain shader does a lot of calculations. It uses 3 texture atlases of 24 textures each. If some or all of those atlases don't get loaded into VRAM, because you don't have space, then rendering those terrain pixels gets very slow. Generally you need 6 GB+ VRAM at Full quality otherwise they may or may not be in VRAM. That is controlled internally by Unity and there is no way to change its behavior or even determine what type of RAM a texture is in. The OS and certain programs will also use some VRAM.

    Reducing Texture Filtering can help since higher filtering is using a lot more texture reads.

    Reduced Textures to Half is currently the best way to ensure textures are in VRAM.
    So the photos I posted were with texture filtering off already and it did help when I changed that setting, but there is an optimization issue at play here. I have plenty of people on our server who are using 4gb GPUs and are having no FPS instability. Regardless of where they are, their FPS stays relatively constant. I don't think that upgrading hardware needs to be the solution for poor optimization. Optimization should be the solution for poor optimization.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sjustus548 View Post
    First off, did you build that in image 3? I have yet to come across anything that looks like that. And if you did build that it is amazing and puts my simple square box of a base to shame lol.
    Haha our server owners designed and built it as our server lobby. It houses some traders, player vending machines, the rules, etc. Come on by if you want to check out some of the other player builds. We have some really creative people!

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    Fun Pimps Staff faatal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dex314 View Post
    So the photos I posted were with texture filtering off already and it did help when I changed that setting, but there is an optimization issue at play here. I have plenty of people on our server who are using 4gb GPUs and are having no FPS instability. Regardless of where they are, their FPS stays relatively constant. I don't think that upgrading hardware needs to be the solution for poor optimization. Optimization should be the solution for poor optimization.
    If plenty of people similar to you are fine, but you are not, then there is some difference causing it. VRAM the OS or programs are using? Drivers? GPU? Load order? What Unity decides to stream? Screen resolution? Game settings?

    The optimization for running out of VRAM is using less VRAM, which is what lower screen resolution or texture resolution does. Does your FPS get steady at Half texture quality or lower screen resolution?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dex314 View Post
    Several of us on our server are still having optimization issues for a18. In a17 we could run textures on max and high settings with a consistent 100+ FPS. Now certain terrain textures cause massive fps drops. Even after turning all settings on low (esp texture filtering), full texture size still results in 130 fps indoors and only 10 fps outside. This is bizarre and cannot be considered normal. GPU / CPU temperatures are all nice and cool.

    I have attached a link with 3 images showing the wildly varying FPS rates based on location.

    https://imgur.com/a/0OHIll0

    Anyways, a18 has been a blast otherwise. Keep up the amazing work.
    Also, those demo zombies are my favorites.
    You can switch to experimental 18.2 b5 in the game properties. They have an option to lower the terrain quality. Also, before all that, try to set Anisotropic filtering to OFF/NO both in your GPU options of the game and inside the game.

    Seems like you can run the game pretty high, but your VRAM appears to be filling outside. Faatal explained all about it a few hours ago.

    Do you have 6gb VRAM? then you cannot do highest (close, though). Try setting AF off. And then, with A18.2 b5 you have a new option to directly lower the terrain quality. Good stuff. Try it. Lower it until you do not have drops. You might only have to lower it 2 levels.

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    Ranger -Holo-'s Avatar
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    SphereII has a mod that removed the microsplat thing, https://7daystodie.com/forums/showth...eii-s-DMT-Mods
    For those that don't want to run the experimental version.
    It helped a lot on my system, brought down GPU usage from 99% to 35-40% and allowed me to set most settings up to high.
    There is a decrease on visual fidelity on ore textures underground, but it's worth it in my eyes.
    Last edited by -Holo-; 11-29-2019 at 02:48 PM. Reason: clarification

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    Colony Founder meganoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Holo- View Post
    SphereII has a mod that removed the microsplat thing, https://7daystodie.com/forums/showth...eii-s-DMT-Mods
    It helped a lot on my system, brought down GPU usage from 99% to 35-40% and allowed me to set most settings up to high.
    There is a decrease on visual fidelity on ore textures underground, but it's worth it in my eyes.
    Yes, but the new terrain quality setting achieves most of what the Sphereii mod does without installing a mod and keeps ore textures nice (I didn't do a direct comparison but played with Terrain Quality set to middle and mined through one night yesterday). So it is worth first trying this. On the other hand at least one player (Scyris in the suggestions thread) says that the terrain slider didn't help her and the mod does.

    Also I heard some people had big differences between some driver versions and nvidia driver settings if you have an nvidia GPU. @dex314: If you ever changed settings in nvidias management tool, maybe reset to default or try a different version of the GPU driver as a last resort.
    Last edited by meganoth; 11-29-2019 at 02:24 PM.

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    Ranger -Holo-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meganoth View Post
    Yes, but the new terrain quality setting achieves most of what the Sphereii mod does without installing a mod and keeps ore textures nice (I didn't do a direct comparison but played with Terrain Quality set to middle and mined through one night yesterday). So it is worth first trying this. On the other hand at least one player (Scyris in the suggestions thread) says that the terrain slider didn't help her and the mod does.

    Also I heard some people had big differences between some driver versions and nvidia driver settings if you have an nvidia GPU. @dex314: If you ever changed settings in nvidias management tool, maybe reset to default or try a different version of the GPU driver as a last resort.
    True. I edited my post to clarify that it was a fix for 18.1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faatal View Post
    If plenty of people similar to you are fine, but you are not, then there is some difference causing it. VRAM the OS or programs are using? Drivers? GPU? Load order? What Unity decides to stream? Screen resolution? Game settings?

    The optimization for running out of VRAM is using less VRAM, which is what lower screen resolution or texture resolution does. Does your FPS get steady at Half texture quality or lower screen resolution?
    VRAM usage is basically 0 outside of game and no processes are utilizing it while the game is running. I'm not new to this game or to GPU tech etc., so I have definitely adjusted everything I could adjust. Textures never become steady--even at 1/2 textures I get decent frame rates but the frame rates are just as wildly inconsistent. THAT is why I am saying there is an issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by meganoth View Post
    Yes, but the new terrain quality setting achieves most of what the Sphereii mod does without installing a mod and keeps ore textures nice (I didn't do a direct comparison but played with Terrain Quality set to middle and mined through one night yesterday). So it is worth first trying this. On the other hand at least one player (Scyris in the suggestions thread) says that the terrain slider didn't help her and the mod does.

    Also I heard some people had big differences between some driver versions and nvidia driver settings if you have an nvidia GPU. @dex314: If you ever changed settings in nvidias management tool, maybe reset to default or try a different version of the GPU driver as a last resort.
    Yes from what we've gathered, it's really specific GPUs and since I do have a nvidia it was something we considered. I tried different drivers and profiles however, without any success.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Blake_ View Post
    You can switch to experimental 18.2 b5 in the game properties. They have an option to lower the terrain quality. Also, before all that, try to set Anisotropic filtering to OFF/NO both in your GPU options of the game and inside the game.

    Seems like you can run the game pretty high, but your VRAM appears to be filling outside. Faatal explained all about it a few hours ago.

    Do you have 6gb VRAM? then you cannot do highest (close, though). Try setting AF off. And then, with A18.2 b5 you have a new option to directly lower the terrain quality. Good stuff. Try it. Lower it until you do not have drops. You might only have to lower it 2 levels.
    I do not have 6 gb of VRAM but neither do others who get steady frame rates. My settings are already all at lowest, so there's no where else to go. Also, I cannot run experimental right now since I admin a server that runs the stable build. That said, I'll be looking forward to when terrain quality can be adjusted at a later date

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    Reconstructionist Beelzybub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dex314 View Post
    I cannot run experimental right now since I admin a
    server that runs the stable build.
    Yes you can. Just copy and paste the game folder for 18.1 stable to another location
    on your hd. Then opt into the experimental.

    To run 18.1 stable then you would go to the copied folder and run it directly fro the
    game .exes. And running experimental would be through steam or the default game
    folder.

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