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Thread: Well ... that escalated quickly!

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenshae View Post
    Me

    Level: 54
    Game Stage: 159

    Friend

    Level: 48
    Game Stage: 153
    Just these two players?
    So it was overall gamestage of
    159 + 153 * 0.8 = 282
    ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Jenshae View Post
    I think the (horde <--> game stage) progression curve is too steep.
    I don't know what you are doing or what overal settings you use.

    I just played a BM minutes ago with 4 players and a calculated gamestage of ~500. There have been ~20 Demolitioners among many radiates, not even mentioned the "normal" Zs.
    We don't use any exploits like ramp tricks, we don't even have turrets or other traps like electric fence placed yet. Just metal spikes, barbed wire, one scrap turret per player and our guns and pipe bombs, base built of course reinforced concrete. And yes, we "wasted" about 5000 7.62 amunition + scrap metal for the scrap turrets, ~80 pipe bombs and some shotgun muni.
    The horde damaged a lot and destroyed some blocks, but we could repair and even upgrade the base within one day. I don't understand what settings you have, if only one demolitioner blows up 5 blocks around them even if they explode. Some blew up here, and took some blocks out, yes, but not half the base in a radius of 5.
    Every player is skilled to the weapon type he uses (but not necessarily even maxed) and it was not such a big deal.

    Last BM we played with only 3 players and there was no demolitioner at all (so gamestage was about 150 lower than with 4 players)... that should absolutely show how the gamestage affects the Bloodmoon.

    What the hell are you doing? Either you are completely unable (no insult) or the base is completely crap or you have some insane settings (like Zs do 300% blockdamage) you won't tell us.
    Last edited by Liesel Weppen; 1 Week Ago at 10:56 PM.

  2. #62
    Ranger Orclover's Avatar
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    We are getting >20 demolishers a night with just 2 players, not 4 active. Usually ~2 demos at a time every wave or so. If we had 4 guys pumping 7.62 into the horde constantly then yea, this would be a frickin cake walk lol. My god what did you think it would be like with a fully armed squad? 2 of us vs the same horde however not so much.

    Man I wish we had 4 full decked out players on at once for blood moon. Probably just do Blood Moon in the frickin street at that point. Frickin Blood Moon in the town laundromat, No F**** given. Hell add a couple more players and make it 7 or 8 and it would just be Blood Moon Melee Night at the strip club.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orclover View Post
    We are getting >20 demolishers a night with just 2 players, not 4 active. Usually ~2 demos at a time every wave or so. If we had 4 guys pumping 7.62 into the horde constantly then yea, this would be a frickin cake walk lol.
    No it would be not, because with 4 players your gamestage would be much higher and you would not "only" get 20 demolisher but 40.
    That is exactly what the gamestage is used for... nevertheless in the current version it might be to heavy scaled for multiplayer.
    It's a completely different question if double the amount of player might handle double the amount of Zs (especially demos) easier. And in my opinion they do not, it still gets more difficult.

  4. #64
    Leader Laz Man's Avatar
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    Question about the MP multiplier for horde night. Is it in the XML or hard coded? If in xml, cant someone just change it from 0.8 to 0.5 or something?

  5. #65
    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laz Man View Post
    Question about the MP multiplier for horde night. Is it in the XML or hard coded? If in xml, cant someone just change it from 0.8 to 0.5 or something?
    Yes it's in the XML and can be changed.

  6. #66
    Leader Laz Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    Yes it's in the XML and can be changed.
    Wow, okay. So all the people struggling with horde nights thinking of modding things like demos out could easily just lower the number to what feels right for them can do so? That's probably what I would do...😂

  7. #67
    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    But as has been mentioned elsewhere, that would mean you nerf everything, not just the appearance of Demolishers. This would kill the game for a lot of people. It would be just like lowering Zombie Block Damage to 20% - possibly the simplest solution of all to Demolishers?? Problem now is your Demolishers are (arguably) balanced nicely, but every other zombie type in the game is pathetic and harmless (to bases).

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    But as has been mentioned elsewhere, that would mean you nerf everything, not just the appearance of Demolishers. This would kill the game for a lot of people. It would be just like lowering Zombie Block Damage to 20% - possibly the simplest solution of all to Demolishers?? Problem now is your Demolishers are (arguably) balanced nicely, but every other zombie type in the game is pathetic and harmless (to bases).
    I play with 30 zombies for blood moon some times. they are not harmless then lol.

  9. #69
    Ranger Orclover's Avatar
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    So we have a problem then. We can remove Demo's completely (replacing them), or we can cover all the zeds in nerf. But we can't just nerf the demos down to something a bit more reasonable like a glowing cop zed on steroids. It's rare when this game suffers from a lack of mod-ability, but it happens.

    Just need a tick mark in the xml to say "replace C4 on Demo's with TNT? y/n"

  10. #70
    Leader Laz Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    But as has been mentioned elsewhere, that would mean you nerf everything, not just the appearance of Demolishers. This would kill the game for a lot of people. It would be just like lowering Zombie Block Damage to 20% - possibly the simplest solution of all to Demolishers?? Problem now is your Demolishers are (arguably) balanced nicely, but every other zombie type in the game is pathetic and harmless (to bases).
    That number doesnt nerf the zombie block damage if I understand it correctly. The # just reflects the scale up of gamestage which is a huge determining factor when and how many demos you experience. Lowering the number would basically make it more in line with SP scaling which in my opinion feels right to me with mostly default settings.

    For example, I just had my day 49 horde (SP) and no demos yet (plenty radiated, cops, soldiers and wights). My GS is somewhere around 110 to 115. (16 max alive and horde lasted me all the way to 4am)

    So I guess what I'm suggesting is try lowering the number to what feels right to people before removing demos completely. 😎👍
    Last edited by Laz Man; 1 Week Ago at 06:01 PM.

  11. #71
    Colony Founder meganoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orclover View Post
    So we have a problem then. We can remove Demo's completely (replacing them), or we can cover all the zeds in nerf. But we can't just nerf the demos down to something a bit more reasonable like a glowing cop zed on steroids. It's rare when this game suffers from a lack of mod-ability, but it happens.

    Just need a tick mark in the xml to say "replace C4 on Demo's with TNT? y/n"
    What? Where did you get that from?

    Look for "zombieDemolition" in entityclasses.xml. There is a line with "Explosion.BlockDamage", currently set to 5000.

    And if you look for "meleeHandZombieDemolition" in items.xml, you can set the damage he does to blocks or players (currently 500 and 20).
    Last edited by meganoth; 1 Week Ago at 07:34 PM.

  12. #72
    Ranger Orclover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meganoth View Post
    What? Where did you get that from?

    Look for "zombieDemolition" in entityclasses.xml. There is a line with "Explosion.BlockDamage", currently set to 5000.

    And if you look for "meleeHandZombieDemolition" in items.xml, you can set the damage he does to blocks or players (currently 500 and 20).
    I may try that if our server has anybody interested in playing still and knock the explosion damage down to 2,000 or so, the damage to players is meaningless since they never get close enough to do anything. All demo's do is create concrete repair work and turn it into a huge time sink. Which probably all they were designed to do. Create busy work.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orclover View Post
    I may try that if our server has anybody interested in playing still and knock the explosion damage down to 2,000 or so, the damage to players is meaningless since they never get close enough to do anything.
    The radioactive cop has an explosion damage of 750. If you want a cop on steroids, 1,500 might be a good value.

  14. #74
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orclover View Post
    Which probably all they were designed to do. Create busy work.
    No. That is not all they were designed to do. It is what will happen if you insist on letting passive defenses handle everything but that is your choice and not TFP's intention. Their intention was to add a new enemy with a powerful block destroying ability and for players to come up with creative and new ways to overcome them. They don't necessarily want players spending days doing repair busy work. They want you to deal with them in a new new way that minimizes damage to your fort if you can figure a way out.

    I can tell you this, the Devs value active participation by players during horde night.

    And now someone will mention hiding at the top of a massive POI, driving around all night, and/or treading water. To that all I can say is one thing at a time....

  15. #75
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    And now someone will mention hiding at the top of a massive POI, driving around all night, and/or treading water. To that all I can say is one thing at a time....
    I think activities like these by the player are what should eventually trigger crazy zombies like the Demolisher. For instance, you built a ramp to loop the AI for your early BM's. OK Fine. Let people do that, but if they do it too many BMs (detected by some loop detection code in the AI), Demolishers will start coming on your blood moons. Drive around to escape... fine. Do it all time, here come the enraged zombie bears that can ram your vehicle. For treading water, I have no idea... they are too far behind on water to even have thoughtful ideas about it (no wait... here's one... maybe a mass of vultures, like 12 of them and couple that with making it difficult to use weapons while treading water. Not impossible, just difficult)... but still, same concept.
    Last edited by AtomicUs5000; 1 Week Ago at 12:10 AM.

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