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Thread: Well ... that escalated quickly!

  1. #16
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    Is the (horde <--> game stage) levels right?

    Was the horde we had on Day 35 perhaps something we should have had on (current game stage +50%) instead?

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenshae View Post
    Was the horde we had on Day 35 perhaps something we should have had on (current game stage +50%) instead?
    No, or you found a bug.

    Edit: Or the server admin changed the difficulty setting without letting you know.
    Last edited by Liesel Weppen; 11-30-2019 at 06:37 PM.

  3. #18
    Ranger Orclover's Avatar
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    You are not done seeing jumps in difficulty I am afraid, and it gets worse.

    We are at a combined gamestage of ~350ish during our bloodmoons, possibly much higher. Standard settings, 8 zeds per player and cap of 60 zeds spawned at a time. Bloodmoons are just about rediclous. We have stopped building bases and just use modified POI's. It would take 2 or 3 weeks in game time to repair the damage to our "built from scratch" super concrete base, it is just not worth it.

    Bloodmoons consist mostly glowing zeds, maybe 1 or 2 ferals/normals for color. Every wave has a glowing cop zed or two. 2-4 demoltionist are spawned every minute or so after 2am. Vultures are upgraded and spit acid. Dogs are laughably ignored for the most part so we can focus on the bullet sponge hulky glowies. Strangely we no longer need looping ramps since they almost never make it to the top of the long staircase before dying/falling off but its a moot point regardless because when the demo' show up it is only a matter of time before they blow up the staircase. We have resorted to using multiple staircases now but they usually only last a minute or two before they get blown to smithereens as well. When the last staircase is blown up there is nothing for us to do but twiddle our thumbs until morning and then clear them out. Hoping that they do not completely destroy the poi while we wait. Last horde night we lasted until about 2:45 am before the third and final staircase was destroyed and we broke out the card decks till morning. We didnt even run out of ammo. We are pretty close to just removing the demos from the game at this point, those this are just stupidly OP and serve no purpose in making the game more fun. We will happily replace them with glowing cop zeds. They are too tough, too fast and destroy everything in the area around them. Worse however is the chain reaction from them blowing up detonating all the other demo's in the area. Kiss every block within 10 squares of them bunched up goodbye.

    For those of you who can wipe out 100 of them a night with fail-less head shots until morning, good for you, here's a sticker now run along.
    well_done_red1264694594_324.jpg

    For the rest of us they are just annoying base wreckers we have to circumvent somehow. I have yet to find a filter that actually works for them in multiplayer.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesel Weppen View Post
    Another thread here in this forum i just read some days ago.
    And since it is playerlevel capped anyway, it doesn't matter much. If a new player with level 1 joins on serverday 2879, his gamestage is still 1.



    Proof please

    But anyway, it doesn't matter if your algorithm is correct or mine in A18.

    The key is which Zs the bloodmoon throws on you depends on this value. And no matter how exactly this value is calculated you can see each players gamestage in the party menu.
    Where is my proof already!! lol just joking. What I posted was just copied and pasted from the XML that governs gamestage and stuff. If I dared try and do the math I would wreck it all and put out so much false info lol.

  5. #20
    Ranger Orclover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesel Weppen View Post
    The key is which Zs the bloodmoon throws on you depends on this value. And no matter how exactly this value is calculated you can see each players gamestage in the party menu.

    Whats worse is how it calculates group game stage when you party up. Individually on blood moons I can handle the whole night by myself, even killing the lone Demo's that show up because I can headshot 1 of them over and over from a group of 8 when the rest are just ferals and glowies. But my server groups up when we all happen to be on and suddenly our gamestage gets a bit rediculous. Our group cant handle ~4+ demo's in a field of 16-24 zeds, almost all glowing, lots of cops and snotball launching vultures making things worse for long before one or more of those demo's detonates. Once they start detonating then horde night is all but over.

    The weird thing is how easy horde night is to jut "ditch" now. I'm not talking bout walking out and letting them eat you to get a night off. I'm talking about just riding to some distant POI, wait for the horde to spawn and rush up. You get on your hog and simply ride off a few KM's. Once you are out of their spawn range...THEY JUST STAY THERE! You can ride home and just chill, or go somewhere and do some mining. Anybody else see this on their servers? As long as you don't go back and get them to chase you again you can just kinda ditch em. I'm assuming the server just keeps them in que there in that area with no player to chase and waits for somebody to come by. Since the horde has been spawned and not killed then they just sit there rather than respawning as a new horde wherever you are like in the old days (where they would chase you all night). It makes taking the night off real easy but its just so cheesy.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orclover View Post
    We are at a combined gamestage of ~350ish during our bloodmoons, possibly much higher.
    Sounds similar to our bloodmoons since we reach a gamestage of ~300. Almost only radiateds, also mostly at least 1 demolitioner per wave.

    How do you defend?

    We have a small towerplatform, roughly 10x10 4high. Then 5 blocks of metal spikes around that and around that we built a "fence" of those 1/4 reinforced concrete blocks with 1-2 rows barbed wire which stops the Zs first time and we can shot them. The floor is completely reinforced concrete.
    Even if we don't force the Zs in a specific direction, they pile up on 2-3 places.
    Every player puts a scrap gun and shots with his specialized weapon.
    The fence is supposed they break through, then they are in the spikes.
    When they pile up somewhere we are throwing pipebombs and molotows at them (maybe grenades next time).

    That works pretty well. The outer layer of our tower itself gets damaged, 5 to 6 blocks get destroyed, but usually not more.

    But there have been no huge jumps in difficulty yet that we didn't expect. We level up, look at the gamestage and can estimate what comes.

    If you think it is to hard, why don't you lower the difficulty settings? We play on difficulty modifier 3. If it gets to hard, but we still want to continue, we would simply lower that to 2 or even 1.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orclover View Post
    Whats worse is how it calculates group game stage when you party up.
    As far as i understand if you party up, the gamestages of the players add up like the formula told above.

    Lets say 4 players, each gamestage 50 will result in a bloodmoon at gamestage 140. That will cause zombies to spawn according to a gamestage of 140 of course.
    If you do not party up waves are calculated for each player with only each players gamestage of 50, which contains much weaker Zs.
    (Might be another less cheesy way to make BMs easier: Don't party up during BM)

    So yeah, that's what i'm talking all the time about multiplayer. MP is currently much more difficult than SP. Gamestages add up and with shared XP all player level even faster, which pumps the gamestage up even quicker. On the other hand loot is not multiplied. You still loot the same but need brass for ammunition for 4 players to handle the higher gamestages. Also food, you need to feed 4 people but you don't loot more. Traders don't sell more either, afaik.

    But i think that's a limit in the game. More players should not add up the gamestage of each, but spawn more Zs at lower gamestage levels. But the game can't handle such a huge amount of Zs in time which would be necessarry to correspond to the players. So you get harder instead of more Zs. But harder Zs are harder to handle then more weak ones.

  8. #23
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    We have currently I think 4 different blood moon locations (none of which are our bases). The most effective one and the one we used last BM was the burned office tower POI (almost all brick). It is ~20 meters high, has a couple cars out front, huge holes in a couple floors and not too wide. A broken metal stairwell is inside. AC ducts and a hatch (sealed by us) on the roof with more zeds. I reinforced the ground floors and some of the walls with concrete and built staircases (1 block hopping) from the roof to the ground extending from the building. We just sit on the roof and shoot them coming up the staircase. I had a drop off block where they would fall down and run around at the end of the staircase but I filled it in because they never reach the top since we maxed out our combat/penetrator skills. Now the problem is the demo's who inevitably blow up the staircases at some point.

    We also have my buddies monument against nature, a giant concrete and steel super bunker with blade traps. However the insane repair bill due to demo's makes that one pointless. Filter system not working.

    Also the nightclub/music hall with blade traps to filter out the demo's and tall zeds. But the filter system does not seem to work in multiplayer very well and every horde night in that base ended quickly with the demo's simply blowing the crap out of the entrance. Filter system not working.

    Other players on the server made a smaller blade and drat trap reinforced concrete base but they stopped using it after the demo's showed up and made it all rather pointless.

    We are on standard difficulty now. We might edit out the demos and stick with glowing cop zeds and other stuff but if I have to lower the difficulty itself to make the game playable then I will simply quit playing. Which is maybe what you are suggesting?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenshae View Post
    Now it looks good but it is made out of paper.

    I hope those are not brick painted wood...😂😂😂

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orclover View Post
    We have currently I think 4 different blood moon locations (none of which are our bases). The most effective one and the one we used last BM was the burned office tower POI (almost all brick). It is ~20 meters high, has a couple cars out front, huge holes in a couple floors and not too wide. A broken metal stairwell is inside. AC ducts and a hatch (sealed by us) on the roof with more zeds. I reinforced the ground floors and some of the walls with concrete and built staircases (1 block hopping) from the roof to the ground extending from the building. We just sit on the roof and shoot them coming up the staircase. I had a drop off block where they would fall down and run around at the end of the staircase but I filled it in because they never reach the top since we maxed out our combat/penetrator skills. Now the problem is the demo's who inevitably blow up the staircases at some point.

    We also have my buddies monument against nature, a giant concrete and steel super bunker with blade traps. However the insane repair bill due to demo's makes that one pointless. Filter system not working.

    Also the nightclub/music hall with blade traps to filter out the demo's and tall zeds. But the filter system does not seem to work in multiplayer very well and every horde night in that base ended quickly with the demo's simply blowing the crap out of the entrance. Filter system not working.

    Other players on the server made a smaller blade and drat trap reinforced concrete base but they stopped using it after the demo's showed up and made it all rather pointless.

    We are on standard difficulty now. We might edit out the demos and stick with glowing cop zeds and other stuff but if I have to lower the difficulty itself to make the game playable then I will simply quit playing. Which is maybe what you are suggesting?
    What's wrong with lowering the difficulty for now? If anything it may give you guys the breathing room that you guys need to figure out new countermeasures. There is no shame in that. You could also turn up the difficulty later on if it becomes to easy.

    Modding stuff out is really the same thing but more work plus you risk making the game too boring for your group which is worse then dealing with the challenges instead.

    In A17, I remember I had to make zombies only walk except on BM night so I could adapt to what had changed from A16.

    Edit: Honestly, the struggle your group is going right now is part of the fun. Keeps you guys on your toes....nomadic even....almost like there is a real threat to be worried about. Sounds very apocalyptic to me...😂😂😂

    I'd go out on a limb and bet that some of your group's most memorable A18 moments were the chaos after a few demo explosions...😁
    Last edited by Laz Man; 11-30-2019 at 07:49 PM.

  11. #26
    Ranger Orclover's Avatar
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    But why would I want to lower the difficulty on everything if only 1 tiny aspect is even causing an issue? Thats like hating the dessert when it come so you throw up your entire meal and go to try another entree.

    Don't you think you are kind of over reacting?!? Horde night is a breeze, demolishers wrecking everything in the area seems to be the issue at hand for most people. A more logical approach would be to actually up the difficulty of the other mobs and remove demolishers or at least twiddle down the damage a bit so it takes 2 or 3 of them to completely wreck reinforced concrete, kinda like cop zeds. Cop zeds are great, you cant ignore them or you get deaded but it takes a few of them to demolish your POI and at that point you earned it.

    THE most logical solution would be to make demolishers not completely destroy every block within 6 blocks AND trigger detonation of every demolisher around them because joe-zed swung his arm too close to his ****ing chest. But we don't do those kinds of solutions here obviously. So what we will get is MORE Demolishers per spawn, bigger explosive area, C4 strapped to glowing vultures and and a mighty chorus of "QQ some more newbies!" from the forums when people raise a slight objection. BECAUSE THAT is how we do it here! AmIWrONG?!?

  12. #27
    Ranger Orclover's Avatar
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    BTW Vultures with C4 strapped to their chest dive bombing players. I want credit for that one when it is implemented, And it WILL be.

  13. #28
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    @Orclover Donīt you worry, we the players got you if TFP doesnīt. We will credit you if this comes. Yes we will. Just not in a way you think off right now. (Admit it you are satan in disguise)

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pApA^LeGBa View Post
    @Orclover Donīt you worry, we the players got you if TFP doesnīt. We will credit you if this comes. Yes we will. Just not in a way you think off right now. (Admit it you are satan in disguise)
    Disguise?
    benny.jpg

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesel Weppen View Post
    But we did not just run away, we still used the base (although not in the way it was intended to) and killed the zombies.
    Sure you can jump on your minibike and just drive away, or you build the ramp trick and let the Zs run circles, or you can stop playing 7dtd.

    Besids if you plan to avoid the bloodmoon and just loot and build, you can turn of bloodmoon in the config entirely.
    Or you can decrease zombie block damage

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