View Poll Results: Would you like to see food spoilage added to the game?

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  • No way it'll ruin the game!

    35 17.77%
  • No I like the game as is.

    85 43.15%
  • I'm chill and could care less.

    23 11.68%
  • Yeah sure.

    22 11.17%
  • Yes and it's long over due...Devs..

    32 16.24%
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Thread: POLL: Would you like to see food spoilage added?

  1. #136
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    The reason I want spoilage is because it is another progression arc for the game. In the early game with no way to preserve food you can only prepare what you can eat that day and that is disruptive to plans. Later as you gain the ability to store and stockpile, your time is freed up to do other things. This transition process is fun for people like me. It feels rewarding to remember back to when things were primitive and it gives another use for electricity.

    At this point, the method I would prefer would be to advance the food poisoning effect rather than turn good food into rotten food. This would allow players to choose whether to risk eating or not. I would make freshly cooked food only have a 1% chance to poison and then have the % increase by 2% each day.

    For crops I would just add a fourth growth stage that would be “dead” so that they would have to be harvested in a timely manner or lost. I would replace rotten flesh with a “mulch” material that would be crafted using plant fiber, nitrate, and decayed matter. Any perishable food item could be scrapped to decayed matter.

    For preservation I would have a low tech powerless icebox that consumed snow as “fuel” and then an electric fridge for later in the game. Preservation would halt the advancement of the poisoning effect indefinitely for simplicity.

    This way food spoils but can always be eaten if the risk is that or starvation, there is a time in the beginning of the game where you must eat all you cook or risk it by keeping a surplus for a day or two. There would also be preservation containers with fuel costs that could be used to eventually allow over production and stockpiling

    And of course Iron Gut could be twiddled to work with this as well with very little change.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    You just said yourself you are a (food) hoarder. You admit to enjoying mass stockpiling of food and (presumably) major farming operations, and - let me guess - have more than a few points in Living Off the Land? Food spoiling will therefore have little to no effect on you because you are basically already playing as if spoiling was in the game and you enjoy chests overflowing with food. I doubt many others play like that. I for one would not have the time to mass produce food like that (learned from experience - see below*), so I efficiently produce what we need and get on with more important job like preparing a Steel base for gamestage 500. Others like me will therefore get clobbered by spoiling much more than you would. It would force a play-style onto us akin to yours. I don't want that. I doubt many would.
    Obviously I would get food harvests by putting points in that skill. Though I respeced and reduced the LOTL level because I'm at endgame and I wanted to try other builds.

    You're wrong on two points. First, food spoilage will have effects on all players but mainly in early game. We don't start with mass amounts of food (unless you spawn it). So any food you collect will eventually spoil (I'm sure that food would spoil in 1 or 2 days, not weeks if they added that mechanic). Collecting mass amounts of meat for example will cause the majority of that meat will go bad fast unless something is done to slow down spoilage. That brings us to the second point. I'm presuming that if TFP implements spoilage they'll allow you to connect power to fridges/freezers (which makes more sense) so that food will spoil much slower. Once you reach that point food spoilage would be less of an issue, depending on your luck and/or playstyle. Since you play with others I'm sure you'd be able to have working fridges in no time. So it will not affect you guys as much when you're progress further in the game, either through luck or by leveling.

    Forcing a playstyle? Just like weather affecting your temperature in 7D2D and having to wear puffer coats or dusters? Just like having to eat/drink? Spoilage adds more to the survival aspect of the game and makes it more realistic.

    BTW, I also hoard other things as well, but since the thread is about food I only mentioned food.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    *My first playthough of A18 I went for Living off the Land 4 early as being able to make vegetable seeds and also collect 3 x veggies every harvest seemed required since I had to feed the rest of the group. I also focused on a huge number of Planters. All this meant was a huge surplus of food that we will never eat. Next playthough I learned and adapted and put 1 point in LotL, used about a dozen Planters and thus made just enough food to keep us going, which freed me up to do my job (mining). And never looked back.
    Yes that's your playstyle. You learned something about you and your team's playstyle in this alpha and tweaked it in a different game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    How is amassing so much food to have multiple chests overflowing with it - so much that you could not possibly ever eat it all even if you tried - not wasting time? Are you expecting 13 dwarves and a wizard?
    First of all amassing food because I like it is not considered wasting time to me. It might be to you but not to me. Are you starting to understand that wasting time means different from person to person? Not yet? Ok let me give an example.

    Person 1: Likes to spend time playing games.
    Person 2: Likes to spent time reading.
    Person 3: Likes to spend time doing outdoor activities.

    Each person might think that the others are wasting time but each individual enjoys doing their own activities so it's not wasting time for them.
    Secondly, I only take few hours in game to harvest the food. Then I batchcraft stews, drinks, meat/potatos in separate campfires, each with their own timers. I leave and do other things like go exploring, quests, or mining. So it doesn't really use that much time.

  3. #138
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The reason I want spoilage is because it is another progression arc for the game. In the early game with no way to preserve food you can only prepare what you can eat that day and that is disruptive to plans. Later as you gain the ability to store and stockpile, your time is freed up to do other things. This transition process is fun for people like me. It feels rewarding to remember back to when things were primitive and it gives another use for electricity.

    At this point, the method I would prefer would be to advance the food poisoning effect rather than turn good food into rotten food. This would allow players to choose whether to risk eating or not. I would make freshly cooked food only have a 1% chance to poison and then have the % increase by 2% each day.

    For crops I would just add a fourth growth stage that would be “dead” so that they would have to be harvested in a timely manner or lost. I would replace rotten flesh with a “mulch” material that would be crafted using plant fiber, nitrate, and decayed matter. Any perishable food item could be scrapped to decayed matter.

    For preservation I would have a low tech powerless icebox that consumed snow as “fuel” and then an electric fridge for later in the game. Preservation would halt the advancement of the poisoning effect indefinitely for simplicity.

    This way food spoils but can always be eaten if the risk is that or starvation, there is a time in the beginning of the game where you must eat all you cook or risk it by keeping a surplus for a day or two. There would also be preservation containers with fuel costs that could be used to eventually allow over production and stockpiling

    And of course Iron Gut could be twiddled to work with this as well with very little change.
    There's no reason why this wouldn't work and I'm pretty sure a good amount of people would accept this even if they are against it. I can't see many people quitting because this went into the game.

    What I do wonder though is how effective this would be at contributing to the gameplay. You've laid out a lot here. It's a system of systems that appears to require a good amount of attention, but what I would do with this system is purposely spoil my food as much as possible until I had enough of that magic mulch to build a large farm. Then, I would completely bypass any preservation needs by timing the crops so that none die before harvesting, but I still get the exact daily cooking requirements for each harvest.

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The reason I want spoilage is because it is another progression arc for the game.
    [] + arguments
    I really like that idea.

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The reason I want spoilage is because it is another progression arc for the game. In the early game with no way to preserve food you can only prepare what you can eat that day and that is disruptive to plans. Later as you gain the ability to store and stockpile, your time is freed up to do other things. This transition process is fun for people like me. It feels rewarding to remember back to when things were primitive and it gives another use for electricity.

    At this point, the method I would prefer would be to advance the food poisoning effect rather than turn good food into rotten food. This would allow players to choose whether to risk eating or not. I would make freshly cooked food only have a 1% chance to poison and then have the % increase by 2% each day.

    For crops I would just add a fourth growth stage that would be “dead” so that they would have to be harvested in a timely manner or lost. I would replace rotten flesh with a “mulch” material that would be crafted using plant fiber, nitrate, and decayed matter. Any perishable food item could be scrapped to decayed matter.

    For preservation I would have a low tech powerless icebox that consumed snow as “fuel” and then an electric fridge for later in the game. Preservation would halt the advancement of the poisoning effect indefinitely for simplicity.

    This way food spoils but can always be eaten if the risk is that or starvation, there is a time in the beginning of the game where you must eat all you cook or risk it by keeping a surplus for a day or two. There would also be preservation containers with fuel costs that could be used to eventually allow over production and stockpiling

    And of course Iron Gut could be twiddled to work with this as well with very little change.
    This is the first spoilage idea that I could get behind.... the only real challenge would be how to deal with stacks of food. The most logical way would be to only allow you to stack food that has the same poison %. This would result in multiple stacks of the same item, but I think its worth it.

  6. #141
    Leader Laz Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The reason I want spoilage is because it is another progression arc for the game. In the early game with no way to preserve food you can only prepare what you can eat that day and that is disruptive to plans. Later as you gain the ability to store and stockpile, your time is freed up to do other things. This transition process is fun for people like me. It feels rewarding to remember back to when things were primitive and it gives another use for electricity.

    At this point, the method I would prefer would be to advance the food poisoning effect rather than turn good food into rotten food. This would allow players to choose whether to risk eating or not. I would make freshly cooked food only have a 1% chance to poison and then have the % increase by 2% each day.

    For crops I would just add a fourth growth stage that would be “dead” so that they would have to be harvested in a timely manner or lost. I would replace rotten flesh with a “mulch” material that would be crafted using plant fiber, nitrate, and decayed matter. Any perishable food item could be scrapped to decayed matter.

    For preservation I would have a low tech powerless icebox that consumed snow as “fuel” and then an electric fridge for later in the game. Preservation would halt the advancement of the poisoning effect indefinitely for simplicity.

    This way food spoils but can always be eaten if the risk is that or starvation, there is a time in the beginning of the game where you must eat all you cook or risk it by keeping a surplus for a day or two. There would also be preservation containers with fuel costs that could be used to eventually allow over production and stockpiling

    And of course Iron Gut could be twiddled to work with this as well with very little change.
    I like your 4th stage idea. 😎👍

  7. #142
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicUs5000 View Post
    There's no reason why this wouldn't work and I'm pretty sure a good amount of people would accept this even if they are against it. I can't see many people quitting because this went into the game.

    What I do wonder though is how effective this would be at contributing to the gameplay. You've laid out a lot here. It's a system of systems that appears to require a good amount of attention, but what I would do with this system is purposely spoil my food as much as possible until I had enough of that magic mulch to build a large farm. Then, I would completely bypass any preservation needs by timing the crops so that none die before harvesting, but I still get the exact daily cooking requirements for each harvest.
    The other problem I didn’t address is raw foods. What about raw meat? Could you keep it for three weeks and then use it in a recipe that would once again start at 1% chance of poisoning? Then people would just stockpile raw corn, potatoes, meat, etc and then cook meals as they needed them. They would have to turn poisonous and retain their rating once cooked into a meal. Seems complicated.

    As for farm plots it is just a matter of balancing the economy of creating new plots. Personally I think the best limiter on farms is adding a watering can and forcing daily watering by hand. That would prevent any but the most masochistic player from building 100 plot farms.....

  8. #143
    Leader Laz Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The other problem I didn’t address is raw foods. What about raw meat? Could you keep it for three weeks and then use it in a recipe that would once again start at 1% chance of poisoning? Then people would just stockpile raw corn, potatoes, meat, etc and then cook meals as they needed them. They would have to turn poisonous and retain their rating once cooked into a meal. Seems complicated.

    As for farm plots it is just a matter of balancing the economy of creating new plots. Personally I think the best limiter on farms is adding a watering can and forcing daily watering by hand. That would prevent any but the most masochistic player from building 100 plot farms.....
    You mean like the hoe tool but for only after the seed is planted? 😂

  9. #144
    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesel Weppen View Post
    I personally think there should even be something like "balanced nutrition". Always eating the same stuff in a row should increase chance of food poisoning per player. Imho food is one of the most important issues in apocalypse survival, but in 7d2d its just drive by.
    Anyone remember Wellness? It's not quite what you're wishing for, but it certainly made your diet matter in the game. Another neat little mechanic from A16 lost in the mists of time and replaced by.....generic.

    In summary: Wellness dictated your max HP and max Stamina (your level had no effect on those things back then). When you died you lost Wellness which reduced both max HP and max Stamina. All food had a Wellness rating that brought it back up again gradually, thus eating increased your max HP and max Stamina. Easy to get/easy to make foods often gave you a lot of "fullness" (this was back when fullness was a separate meter and not directly related to Stamina) but little or no Wellness.

    So a poor diet like eating all cans or boiled meat or whatever did very little to increase your Wellness/HP/Stamina; while at the other end of the scale, Meaty Stew was the the king of foods, because it gave a ton of fullness, HP recovery and Wellness (5 Wellness per Stew as I recall, with 100 Wellness in total needed to recover 1 max HP/Stamina). There were also perks that boosted the Wellness recovery you got from all foods etc. So speccing into those meant your max HP and max Stamina would recover/increase faster.

    Was a nice mechanic, which gave a very balanced death penalty - which could spiral out of control if you died a lot and you max HP fell to 60, which I think was the lowest it could go.
    Last edited by Ghostlight; 12-03-2019 at 01:06 AM.

  10. #145
    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPanda0421 View Post
    You're wrong on two points. First, food spoilage will have effects on all players but mainly in early game. We don't start with mass amounts of food (unless you spawn it). So any food you collect will eventually spoil
    I think most players amass canned food at the early game. This is the best way to play since food poisoning is devastating then (and harmless later). I even explained in detail in a few threads (this one? cant remember) exactly how to do this. It's a pain, but not as much of a pain as getting food poising early game, so it really is the optimal way to play. This is why spoilage would not work imo and just push more people away from farming and towards cans. Why take the risk of poisoning AND the hassle of spoiling when you don't need to?


    First of all amassing food because I like it is not considered wasting time to me. It might be to you but not to me. Are you starting to understand that wasting time means different from person to person? Not yet? Ok let me give an example.
    So how will you feel when your gs gets high enough that Demolishers appear but you weren't ready for them because you farmed and filled chests with food when you should have mined and built? This game is all about time management and being efficient in preparing for the increasing hordes......At least if you're on high difficulty and plan to fight them. Time wastage is absolutely a thing in this game. I guess you could throw rancid food at them.

    Person 1: Likes to spend time playing games.
    Person 2: Likes to spent time reading.
    Person 3: Likes to spend time doing outdoor activities.
    And all their houses were blown down. But the little piggy who didn't waste any time on such frivolity still had a house at the end of it all.

    I'm still not understanding why you feel massing food that you can never use was a productive thing to do. Other than pure fun if you enjoy farming, I can get that but otherwise? WHY?? What did it do to help you survive? Playing 7 Days because you enjoy farming does not compute. Stardew Valley perhaps.
    Last edited by Ghostlight; 12-03-2019 at 02:33 AM.

  11. #146
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The other problem I didn’t address is raw foods. What about raw meat? Could you keep it for three weeks and then use it in a recipe that would once again start at 1% chance of poisoning? Then people would just stockpile raw corn, potatoes, meat, etc and then cook meals as they needed them. They would have to turn poisonous and retain their rating once cooked into a meal. Seems complicated.
    The easiest thing would be to reset the spoilage I think, provided that the ingredients weren't fully spoiled. The spoilage % doesn't need to mean the amount of the food that is spoiled. It could just mean the percent of time until it is spoiled. Like leaving a frozen package of chicken out a little too long before cooking it. Make your soup and bacteria gets killed. The cooked soup will take much longer to spoil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    As for farm plots it is just a matter of balancing the economy of creating new plots. Personally I think the best limiter on farms is adding a watering can and forcing daily watering by hand. That would prevent any but the most masochistic player from building 100 plot farms.....
    Yeah. The mulch/compost or whatever shouldn't replace the rotten flesh, but maybe you make the compost first using some recipe at a compost bin that includes rotten flesh, rotten food, plant fibers, nitrate... let it sit for a few days. Compost would then be used with clay and plant fibers and whatever else for farm plots, or alternatively as a fertilizer to give crops a growth boost. It's a shame they removed the fertilizer before changing the farming system because I think it would make farming a little more worthwhile now. Crop boxes do need food. You can't keep planting things in them as much as you could in the ground.

    The watering can wouldn't be bad as long as there is some late game QOL alternative. Even that stupid "Raft" game provides a sprinkler system option at some point. It would make more use for pipes and good use of the wrenchable shower heads. Build a pump, build some water storage, attach to your generator.

    My farm in my current game is getting pretty big. I know making the planters is a task and a half, but once set up, I do think the crops grow a little too fast. At least for some of them like mushrooms. Mushrooms are too important in some of the crazy non-food recipes to be growing that fast. None of them vary at all to make it interesting either. All the same. Every crop extends the "cropsGrowingMaster" with "PlantGrowing.GrowthRate" set to 63.0, whatever that equates to in real time. I think I harvest every other night in a 2 hr day game, but they could be ready sooner and I just don't know because I'm busy doing other things.

  12. #147
    Colony Founder AtomicUs5000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesel Weppen View Post
    I personally think there should even be something like "balanced nutrition". Always eating the same stuff in a row should increase chance of food poisoning per player. Imho food is one of the most important issues in apocalypse survival, but in 7d2d its just drive by. That doesn't need a system like "green hell" where you need carbo, fat and protein separately, but "just" increase chance of food poisoning by 1% every time the same meal is eaten in a row or reduce the food gain. If you eat something else, reduce 1% chance of food poisoning for everything else. And wow, cooking different meals instead of just meat stew in masses becomes very reasonable. It would not even increase difficulty in the beginning when you only eat cans, because you find lots of different cans anyway. And if it is singleplayer and you still find enough various cans, it is also not a problem.
    Green Hell does it well. SCUM does it poorly... way, way too complicated to a ridiculous level that doesn't match the rest of the game.

    ECO Survival does balanced nutrition the best in my opinion.
    4 categories... carbs, fat, protein, and vitamins. In 7D2D things like mushrooms, canned veggies, goldenrod, and chrysanthemum (and I suppose vitamins) would be the source of vitamins. Things like coffee, beer, moonshine can slightly deplete your vitamins percentage. Eating too much corn and potatoes could make the carbs percentage of the nutritional value for all your current calories too high. Now you have to counter that with more meat, fat, and vitamins. Too much meat, same thing... now you might need that starch. etc. Low on fat from a lean diet? Just eat some fat.

    Being unbalanced doesn't really hinder you like lack of calories would, but being balanced 25% in each category leads to a bonus in how quickly you earn skill points. Something similar would fit just fine in 7D2D where being balanced could either give you an XP multiplier or perhaps a temporary point in each of the classes. Because the management of your nutrition is going to be based on how well you are surviving to sustain the categories at a balanced level, this is one thing that should be reward-based instead of punishment-based.

    It would be a good system for XML manipulation too. It just screams modability.
    Last edited by AtomicUs5000; 12-03-2019 at 03:49 AM.

  13. #148
    Leader Laz Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    I think most players amass canned food at the early game. This is the best way to play since food poisoning is devastating then (and harmless later). I even explained in detail in a few threads (this one? cant remember) exactly how to do this. It's a pain, but not as much of a pain as getting food poising early game, so it really is the optimal way to play. This is why spoilage would not work imo and just push more people away from farming and towards cans. Why take the risk of poisoning AND the hassle of spoiling when you don't need to?




    So how will you feel when your gs gets high enough that Demolishers appear but you weren't ready for them because you farmed and filled chests with food when you should have mined and built? This game is all about time management and being efficient in preparing for the increasing hordes......At least if you're on high difficulty and plan to fight them. Time wastage is absolutely a thing in this game. I guess you could throw rancid food at them.



    And all their houses were blown down. But the little piggy who didn't waste any time on such frivolity still had a house at the end of it all.

    I'm still not understanding why you feel massing food that you can never use was a productive thing to do. Other than pure fun if you enjoy farming, I can get that but otherwise? WHY?? What did it do to help you survive? Playing 7 Days because you enjoy farming does not compute. Stardew Valley perhaps.
    Ding ding ding! Yes, some people like the game for different reasons which is a good thing imo. For all you know he has horde nights configured to once every 2 weeks and plays on the lowest game setting and that's perfectly fine....😂

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieSurvivor View Post
    Maybe it can be used as the new glass. I'm down for more ways of committing suicide. :-P

    - - - Updated - - -



    What if they added a perk that allowed you to eat rotten food and not have any ill effects, would that help solve this problem?
    You can, just take a vitamin pill and there you go, eat rotten meat and sham sandwiches until you burst.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    Anyone remember Wellness? It's not quite what you're wishing for, but it certainly made your diet matter in the game.
    As you say it i vaguely remember it.
    But that adds no real variety too.
    It's just a third value.
    If you become thirsty, you drink some liquid that gives you the most thirst.
    If you become hungry, you eat a meal that gives you the most fullness.
    If you not feeling well, you eat a meal that gives you the most wellness.

    Yeah, i think it was good decision to remove it. Just another value with no real mechanics behind it.

    That's why i'd even prefer nerfing food when you always eat the same, even over a system like in Green Hell. Instead of just water and food you then have 4 values of water, carb, protein and fat. There you always end up with cooking exactly the same 3 meals, the on that gives you most carb, the one that gives most protein and one that gives you the most fat.
    But if you need to eat different stuff, every different meal you can make bringes an advantage. Even if it gives you less food it will increase the value you get next time when eating a different meal that gives you much food.

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