View Poll Results: Would you like to see food spoilage added to the game?

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  • No way it'll ruin the game!

    35 17.77%
  • No I like the game as is.

    85 43.15%
  • I'm chill and could care less.

    23 11.68%
  • Yeah sure.

    22 11.17%
  • Yes and it's long over due...Devs..

    32 16.24%
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Thread: POLL: Would you like to see food spoilage added?

  1. #46
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    I voted for Yeah, sure.

    Here is why. I think spoilage would be a welcome addition to a survival game. To me survival is about not dying in its most strictest sense. I am very happy to welcome something to this game that puts a pin in each of these things needed for survival. As a culinary professional and a prepper, I am all too keenly aware of what that means. However, I am not entirely putting all my dukes in a bag for hyper realism. I'd like something that is a bit more nuanced than the food poisoning system we currently have. I have noted that TFP are looking into and expanding on food buffs/debuffs and im interested in seeing what they are going for.

    Things I don't like about the current system: 1. Too easy to just eat more and the cost ends up being in food. 2. A buddy of mine plays a hybrid STR / FORT build and he perked out Master Chef but not until he filled a chest to the brim with stacks of food that will never spoil, and got his points back from those perks. 3. Iron Gut is one of those perks that gets vividly overlooked.

    I'd like to propose the idea that perhaps looping Iron Gut and Cooking could operate well in the same perk line. Not only would a person be good at coming up with proper cooking techniques, but should also be keenly aware of the risks of eating spoiled food.

    In addition to this, I'd also like to see a change in how looted cooking recipes are doled out. Common recipes for simple things are stupidly common in households, bookstores, magazine racks, and printed on cards in supermarkets. That idea should be touched upon.

    More recipes are also nice, but also could consider the notion that a number of these could be rare and also loot only, like Super Corn.

    I also would love to hear the reason why canned/tin beans are not implemented. This is a missed opportunity here. We have chili, but no beans? *squints*

    There's also a number of other things that I would love to see implemented, but this goes towards the hyperrealistic. I assume right now in this game, having access to working refrigeration technology would be ultimate luxury. However, smoking and curing came long before all this. Nitrates are already in the game. Salt and nitrates are preservatives and are the basis of curing process. Smoking also uses (specific kinds of) wood. Wood exists already in the game. So, add salt and you have access to the basics of BOTH.

    Next thing I'd look into is fish. With the amount of waterfront property in this game now, I would welcome fish as a new and semi-plentiful meat type.

    And then finally, in places where water is hard to find and somewhat gross to drink out of toilets, why not implement rain barrels to catch water? Rain already exists in game, and the harvesting of condensation is one of those things that is basic survival 101. I would gratefully welcome it as part of a wider strategy of gathering resources, even if its slow going.

    I would also like to echo RipClaw's suggestion about food spoilage that can be turned into composting for fertilizer.

    There is also a teeeeeeeeeny bit of a prepper snob in me that would very much enjoy a separate perk line for bushcraft, which would include basic camp cooking, survival, and quality of primitive tools, but again.. this is just me being optimistic.
    Last edited by Ramethzer0; 12-01-2019 at 04:07 PM.

  2. #47
    Colony Founder ZombieSurvivor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostlight View Post
    Because the entire game is already planned on an (invisible) roadmap, remember. What's the point?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Can you explain why it would be good?

    One reason why it would be bad is that you cannot pick and choose when you harvest meat and animal fat (the 2 most important ingredients for almost every non-schematic recipe). You get them when you encounter an animal. That's RNG basically. Unless you are lucky and have everything else needed ready to cook, and enough people ready to eat the lot, you are just going to force people to watch those ingredients spoil or use them in a sub-par way.

    So what we have is our ingredients spoiling if we do not cook them right away, then the coked food spoiling if we do not eat it right away (remember you can only over-eat past max once). That's simply annoying micro.

    The use of cooked food is already in decline because of the stupid food poisoning mechanic plus the multiple ways to get safe - and thus 100% superior - canned goods. Spoilage would just be the nail in its coffin. We're already at the point we rarely bother cooking unless our cans are a little low - the fact that it would also spoil when we do cook it would make it a total waste of time.
    I stopped reading after "Can you explain why it would be good?" you seem to be very very arguementative and I do not have time for that. I'm not here to debate. I'm more interested in reading peoples opinions and if something they say strikes an interest...I might debate then. have a nice day.

    Go back and read what I've already said about how I feel regarding food spoiladge.
    Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 12-01-2019 at 04:14 PM.

  3. #48
    Colony Founder ZombieSurvivor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramethzer0 View Post
    I voted for Yeah, sure.

    <snip>
    +1
    I agree with most of what you said,Well said.

  4. #49
    Zombie Hunter Jarod_Silverstar's Avatar
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    I am not sure I see the value in this currently.
    It seems obvious that the intent is to keep people from stockpiling large amounts of food or water but where is the positive benefit to the game in that?
    As it is in my game, I don't tend to go out of my way to gather food when I don't need it. Got a small farm that provides enough corn, potato, mushroom, yucca and aloe to keep me going. In single player you only really need about 4 plants of each with the first level of Living off the Land perk. Meat and fat I get when I spot a deer or hog while traveling too and from a looting location.
    The only time I end up with any extra is when I hit a POI like Bob's Boars that has a bunch of hogs in it. And all that means is I don't have to hunt for a few days while looting.

    So I don't see a reason for spoilage unless it has something to really add to the game.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieSurvivor View Post
    Now I know next to nothing in what does and does not use a lot of computer resources but I had this idea. I've heard the arguement that all the timers needed to keep track of food would have a negative impact, especially on dedicated servers
    How will this work actually? What if I have a bacon and eggs I made today and I stack it with one I made yesterday? How will it know which one is older? What if other people make food and put it all in the chest together?

    Are you going to stop food from stacking?

    This all sounds like much more trouble than it's worth for what it will bring to the game. (I don't mean your idea, I mean food spoilage in general)

    I don't care one way or the other, I can work with any system. Just seems a waste of time.

  6. #51
    Colony Founder ZombieSurvivor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungryZombie View Post
    How will this work actually? What if I have a bacon and eggs I made today and I stack it with one I made yesterday? How will it know which one is older? What if other people make food and put it all in the chest together?

    Are you going to stop food from stacking?

    This all sounds like much more trouble than it's worth for what it will bring to the game. (I don't mean your idea, I mean food spoilage in general)

    I don't care one way or the other, I can work with any system. Just seems a waste of time.
    hmmm Damn very good points.... I did not think of it that way...hmmmm I have no clue lol. I'll post something if I can figure out good answers. Thanks this gives me a lot more to think about.

    EDIT: just thought of 1 one way to stop stacking. Just a fast thought. No more stacking of food instead you can craft a bag or find a better bag with more space that you put in your inventory..kinda how those new bundles work. you can place food in those bags and those bags only take up one slot in the inventory.
    Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 12-01-2019 at 05:08 PM.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieSurvivor View Post
    hmmm Damn very good points.... I did not think of it that way...hmmmm I have no clue lol. I'll post something if I can figure out good answers. Thanks this gives me a lot more to think about.

    EDIT: just thought of 1 one way to stop stacking. Just a fast thought. No more stacking of food instead you can craft a bag or find a better bag with more space that you put in your inventory..kinda how those new bundles work. you can place food in those bags and those bags only take up one slot in the inventory.
    Don't we already have larger capacity containers in game? Plus inventory management is an obstacle the game makers seem to want to be a part of the game experience. Making plenty of storage for all the foods in various stages of decomposition still doesn't seem like it will add to that game experience that keeps me coming back.

    The only game I played with food spoilage was Subnautica and they didn't let the fishes stack but they had way less items in game so you didn't really feel the inventory crunch. Plus they had a fish tank where the live fish never spoiled. You just pulled them out as needed.

    Perhaps if the game let you farm and raise livestock that would never spoil until picked or slaughtered and I could then cook then as needed I'd be more comfortable with it.

  8. #53
    Colony Founder ZombieSurvivor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungryZombie View Post
    Don't we already have larger capacity containers in game? Plus inventory management is an obstacle the game makers seem to want to be a part of the game experience. Making plenty of storage for all the foods in various stages of decomposition still doesn't seem like it will add to that game experience that keeps me coming back.

    The only game I played with food spoilage was Subnautica and they didn't let the fishes stack but they had way less items in game so you didn't really feel the inventory crunch. Plus they had a fish tank where the live fish never spoiled. You just pulled them out as needed.

    Perhaps if the game let you farm and raise livestock that would never spoil until picked or slaughtered and I could then cook then as needed I'd be more comfortable with it.
    Oh i see. Lots of games do food spoiladge. most i do not like, a few I do. I have no idea how it can be used in this game nor do i have really any ideas for it. I've read some really good ideas from others but I rather not post what they have already said.

  9. #54
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    1. guess I was wrong. Guess it IS a devicive feature. Still think they are wrong/lack creativity/imagination, but I do retract the statement of everyone would like it.


    Quote Originally Posted by HungryZombie View Post
    How will this work actually? What if I have a bacon and eggs I made today and I stack it with one I made yesterday? How will it know which one is older? What if other people make food and put it all in the chest together?

    Are you going to stop food from stacking?

    This all sounds like much more trouble than it's worth for what it will bring to the game. (I don't mean your idea, I mean food spoilage in general)

    I don't care one way or the other, I can work with any system. Just seems a waste of time.
    Super easy: Take the median and make spoilage % based.
    1x40min timer + 1x20min timer = 2x30min timer
    Every 30 minute 10-20% will spoil (numbers may need to be tweaked) this way stacking is beneficial but having 300 meat stews doesnt mean you will never run out, because you lose 30,27,25,23... every time.

    I can't see how this is hard at all to implement.

  10. #55
    Colony Founder ZombieSurvivor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    1. guess I was wrong. Guess it IS a devicive feature. Still think they are wrong/lack creativity/imagination, but I do retract the statement of everyone would like it.




    Super easy: Take the median and make spoilage % based.
    1x40min timer + 1x20min timer = 2x30min timer
    Every 30 minute 10-20% will spoil (numbers may need to be tweaked) this way stacking is beneficial but having 300 meat stews doesnt mean you will never run out, because you lose 30,27,25,23... every time.

    I can't see how this is hard at all to implement.
    I think the issue are the timers and the negative impact it will have. Thats why I suggested instead of a constant ticking clock used as a timer an index that is checked once a day would, I'm guessing here, be far less strain on system resources.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    1. guess I was wrong. Guess it IS a devicive feature. Still think they are wrong/lack creativity/imagination, but I do retract the statement of everyone would like it.




    Super easy: Take the median and make spoilage % based.
    1x40min timer + 1x20min timer = 2x30min timer
    Every 30 minute 10-20% will spoil (numbers may need to be tweaked) this way stacking is beneficial but having 300 meat stews doesnt mean you will never run out, because you lose 30,27,25,23... every time.

    I can't see how this is hard at all to implement.
    ok, so say every 30 minutes 10% spoil. Thats fine if you have a stack of 300 or 30 or even 10. But what of stacks less than 10? Or single items?

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalen View Post
    ok, so say every 30 minutes 10% spoil. Thats fine if you have a stack of 300 or 30 or even 10. But what of stacks less than 10? Or single items?
    Why do I have to even state this? o_O Obviously 1 is the minimum amount. How... is that not obvious?
    Sure you could do it with percentages... but that brings no benefit and makes it more rng (we have enough of that as is)

    It should always be beneficial to stack it, otherwise you will have people trying to exploit and micromanage 240 stacks of meat stew in a freezer.

  13. #58
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    Without arguing for a special way food spoilage, i think it should spoil.

    In an apocalypse survival game food should be an issue. In 7d2d it is not at all (at least in the begining of a multiplayergame).

    Since servertime stops when nobody is online in this game, food spoilage should also stop then. In relation to other games (ark, empyrion, ...) spoilage time can be much shorter.

    There should be ways to slow down spoilage which of course cost effort to build them and keep them running.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktoriusiii View Post
    Why do I have to even state this? o_O Obviously 1 is the minimum amount. How... is that not obvious?
    Sure you could do it with percentages... but that brings no benefit and makes it more rng (we have enough of that as is)

    It should always be beneficial to stack it, otherwise you will have people trying to exploit and micromanage 240 stacks of meat stew in a freezer.
    So minimum of one.... so if you have a stack of 1, in 30 minutes you'd lose it? But if you have a stack of 10 in 30 minutes you'd lose only 1? Is that what you're saying?

  15. #60
    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieSurvivor View Post
    I stopped reading after "Can you explain why it would be good?" you seem to be very very arguementative and I do not have time for that. I'm not here to debate. I'm more interested in reading peoples opinions and if something they say strikes an interest...I might debate then. have a nice day.

    Go back and read what I've already said about how I feel regarding food spoiladge.
    You seem to not care. If I am arguing it's because the poll is verging on meaningless. People will answer based on their experiences with food. So people playing solo on short days will likely have experienced only chests overflowing with food and will thus vote yes add spoilage because they perceive food is too easy. People on long days and feeding a dozen others will have a very different view. Without the context being supplied, the final result is not going to tell you anything useful.

    I suspect - and this is pure gut feeling (ha!) - that most people play solo on default settings, so your final result will slightly favour adding spoiling. Would that make me think (as a dev) that adding it is a good idea and will please my playerbase? Hell no.

    Hopefully the thread will serve as an indicator as to how complex adding this would be. And how many knock-on effects it will have that need to be carefully considered and how many existing game systems might need changed as a result - not to mention how unfun a food spoilage mini-game can become as several other survival games can testify. Then you need to test all that with every permutation of player set-up. Huge effort required (to do it right). And for what? To add something that will in all likelihood reduce people's enjoyment of the game (again gut feeling here from past experience in other games, spoiling foods adds nothing but frustration. ARK is the perhaps the only exception as spoiled food is very useful but food is also super easy to come by in that game to balance the spoiling). Even if they made it a setting, all that effort is still burnt up.

    This is why I just sighed at the idea. Do people want that much dev effort spend on food spoiling when we still have laughably bad melee combat, an RWG algorithm that is ropey at best, and no end-game? Seriously?

    The best result I could see from adding food spoilage is people are forced to spend more time (or dukes) gathering food. That's it. Best possible result. Regardless of how much effort a given player puts into gathering food now, spoilage will simply mean he has to do it more.
    Last edited by Ghostlight; 12-01-2019 at 08:40 PM.

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