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Thread: Apparently we are all playing the game wrong

  1. #1
    Colony Founder Brian9824's Avatar
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    Apparently we are all playing the game wrong

    There was this hilarious thread on steam where a guy actually tried to argue the best way to play the game was to sit there for large chunks of time and not play the game so your gamestage wouldn't go up. He's still going on and on about it and I thought it would be a fun read for people -

    https://steamcommunity.com/app/25157...1245002635808/

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    Colony Founder RestInPieces's Avatar
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    I think he is being ironic about the GS scaling (as the title of the thread is hinting).

    And tbh I am not a fan of the GS scaling either. I think the formula is a bit outdated and could use some modification to include more GS-changing factors, make the level scaling less linear and not punish & reward players at the same time - at least not that noticably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RestInPieces View Post
    And tbh I am not a fan of the GS scaling either. I think the formula is a bit outdated and could use some modification to include more GS-changing factors, make the level scaling less linear and not punish & reward players at the same time
    How?
    Looks for me like an easy peasy player that preferably won't have any difficulty at all. If you do that, you'll piss of much more other players that don't want to have a walking simulator.
    I don't get it, there are various ways to make the game advancing slower in diffuculty. That doesn't even need mods. You can choose longer days, lower XP gain, fewer zombies, higher block durability, less zombie count, up to even disable blood moons entirely.

    So what's the goal of such complaints? Game is to hard even on lowest difficulty setting? Then turn down the settings. It's not a miracle. Nobody forces you to play on insane.

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    The problem with gamestage is not that it is too difficult or too easy. It is that it is a direct reflection and result of player activity. Gamestage is supposed to be the state of the universe in which we live. It is the force that delivers the adversity that we overcome as well as the blessings we receive.

    When the cosmic hand of fate can so directly be tied to player actions it causes weird incentives and strange metas that shouldn't really exist. The player has to believe that fate will happen the way it is supposed to happen whether that is by random chance, divine intervention, karma, or pre-destination etc.... In this way the universe feels as it should feel: following its course independent of the choices of the player.

    The way the game is right now goes against normal causality and so it is jarring to those who notice it. You pick up your umbrella because it is raining. It isn't raining because you picked up your umbrella. But the game right now feels like the second causal flow.

    Probability of meeting stronger enemies, coming up against tougher challenges, and getting better loot should all happen independently of what the player chooses to do. It is wrong that you know that by killing more zombies and mining more ore and upgrading more blocks you are going to get a tougher world and better loot as a direct consequence of that.

    The algorithm needs to have some wax and wane to it, some randomness to it, be location based, and honestly...obfuscated from our view. Only then will we feel like we are a small part of the universe and that the actions we take can work to lift ourselves out of bad situations but not change the nature of the global reality of the universe itself.

    Alternatively, they could go back to time based general ramping up of difficulty day by day like they used to which was simple but still better because we knew that the world would move on with or without us. This isn't ideal because it puts a contrived urgency on the player-- but at least we know that the nature of our world is not the consequence of our actions.

    This is one of the great appeals of my 0XP mod. Gamestage is advanced daily and the player earns no xp for any actions. Skillpoints come after each day of survival and gamestage advances regardless of whether you sit in your base all day or go out and participate in the world. There is no disincentive that tempts players to avoid actions nor can the player artificially ramp up the gamestage by spamming crap. It is just the steady churn of the universe and it couldn't care less about you.
    Last edited by Roland; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:58 PM.

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    Colony Founder Pille's Avatar
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    The only purpose this thread seems to be to make fun of someone whose opinion you disagree with.
    Last edited by Pille; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:57 AM.

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    Colony Founder Brian9824's Avatar
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    Honestly I just find the whole thing hilarious. There was an even funnier thread that was deleted, but arguing that the best way to play the game is to not play the game and go afk for hours in it because your gamestage will go up 4 points otherwise is just hilarious.

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    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pille View Post
    The only purpose this thread seems to be to make fun of someone whose opinion you disagree with.
    I think I added more purpose than that.

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    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian9824 View Post
    There was this hilarious thread on steam where a guy actually tried to argue the best way to play the game was to sit there for large chunks of time and not play the game so your gamestage wouldn't go up. He's still going on and on about it and I thought it would be a fun read for people -

    https://steamcommunity.com/app/25157...1245002635808/
    Well on Insane (and especially in co-op) you definitely do need to manage your GS because if it gets too high before your main kill base is up and running, you are screwed, assuming you are not going to exploit the AI or avoid the blood moon horde completely (if you plan to do either of those things, GS doesn't matter a damn). However the way to keep GS low if you feel the need is to kill yourself. ;P

  9. #9
    Colony Founder RestInPieces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liesel Weppen View Post
    How?
    Looks for me like an easy peasy player that preferably won't have any difficulty at all. If you do that, you'll piss of much more other players that don't want to have a walking simulator.
    I don't get it, there are various ways to make the game advancing slower in diffuculty. That doesn't even need mods. You can choose longer days, lower XP gain, fewer zombies, higher block durability, less zombie count, up to even disable blood moons entirely.

    So what's the goal of such complaints? Game is to hard even on lowest difficulty setting? Then turn down the settings. It's not a miracle. Nobody forces you to play on insane.
    Errr, who said anything about advancing slower? It's an equation - I just want more variables added and less weight on the level variable, if at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    I think I added more purpose than that.
    *Cough*

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The problem with gamestage is not that it is too difficult or too easy. It is that it is a direct reflection and result of player activity.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    When the cosmic hand of fate can so directly be tied to player actions it causes weird incentives and strange metas that shouldn't really exist....the universe feels as it should feel: following its course independent of the choices of the player.
    Indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The way the game is right now goes against normal causality and so it is jarring to those who notice it.
    Pretty much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    You pick up your umbrella because it is raining. It isn't raining because you picked up your umbrella. But the game right now feels like the second causal flow.
    Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    It is wrong that you know that by killing more zombies and mining more ore and upgrading more blocks you are going to get a tougher world and better loot as a direct consequence of that.
    Couldn't agree more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The algorithm needs to have some wax and wane to it, some randomness to it, be location based, and honestly...obfuscated from our view.
    Definitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    This isn't ideal because it puts a contrived urgency on the player-- but at least we know that the nature of our world is not the consequence of our actions.
    True.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    This is one of the great appeals of my 0XP mod. Gamestage is advanced daily and the player earns no xp for any actions. Skillpoints come after each day of survival and gamestage advances regardless of whether you sit in your base all day or go out and participate in the world. There is no disincentive that tempts players to avoid actions nor can the player artificially ramp up the gamestage by spamming crap. It is just the steady churn of the universe and it couldn't care less about you.
    So you wanted to advertise your mod all this time? Argg!!
    But seriously, your mod achieves RPG elements being complementary, as they should have been from the start.


    There could be a variety of factors added to the GS formula. Location could be external or by just having different entity groups (as it is now afaik), but random events, global time, quests completed and various other things, could all be added to share the weight of calculating the formula. Global time, as a random example, could have a very small weight factor and non-linear increase.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Heh...I added the paragraph about my mod after I posted originally as an afterthought....as in after I thought about it I recognized the good shill opportunity.

    My mod isn’t the perfect solution. It just returns the game to ramping up difficulty on a time basis like it used to be. Like you said adding in more (for God sake secret) variables to make it less predictable and ascertainable by the player would be ideal. Then add modifiers based on locations and events.

    Like the hopefully still in the works encounter system. When the encounter is set up it could have its own localized gamestage multiplier to make it easier or harder. As you approach you could then decide if it looked to be too hard or doable but it wouldn’t solely be generated from your current gamestage alone.
    Last edited by Roland; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:45 AM.

  11. #11
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    hmmm... I'm not to sure about this...lol
    Who in the world buys a game to not play it...I think whoever this guy is, is more crazy than I lmao.


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    Zombie Hunter NukemDed's Avatar
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    how about some in game mechanic that deliberately reduces the game stage. some sort of quest or sacrifice to the gods or totem or?
    give those who are worried about it a way of reducing the pressure. those who are happy with the status quo can simply pass.
    and a way also to increase it (blaring sirens or flashing lights for horde night to invite more guests?)

    kind of a calling card. im not here (reduce gs), i dont care (pass) or here i am come get me (increase gs)

    does loot scale to gs? thats kind of cheesy. i reckon it should be based entirely on perks. and difficulty of poi and toughness of z for loot bags
    not how long you have been playing

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    Quote Originally Posted by NukemDed View Post
    how about some in game mechanic that deliberately reduces the game stage. some sort of quest or sacrifice to the gods or totem or?
    give those who are worried about it a way of reducing the pressure. those who are happy with the status quo can simply pass.
    and a way also to increase it (blaring sirens or flashing lights for horde night to invite more guests?)
    +1 I like this idea a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NukemDed View Post
    how about some in game mechanic that deliberately reduces the game stage. some sort of quest or sacrifice to the gods or totem or?
    Human sacrifice is the only way to appease these gods.

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    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quyxkh View Post
    Human sacrifice is the only way to appease these gods.
    If anyone knows someone named Bob we can start the grill right now.

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