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Thread: Integrity issues

  1. #1
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    Integrity issues

    I haven't kept up with a lot of the changes in the game, but something i've been encountering while building is ... odd structural issues.

    For example: I have been playing around with concepts, and i built a structure, that was solid steel blocks, from bedrock, up to surface, and about 40x40, maybe even larger.

    Randomly, while i'm doing stuff elsewhere, the blocks start to collapse. Sometimes in the center, sometimes from the side, but ALWAYS from the top down.

    I dont understand what is causing the blocks at the top to breakdown. There are no breaks to bedrock. It is a solid connection to all the other blocks.

    Sometimes, when i go down to bedrock and build a pillar, once it gets past a certain height, it starts to collapse as well.

    Is there some sort of weight limitations that cause these types of issues?

  2. #2
    Community Moderator SylenThunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by empirebattles View Post
    Is there some sort of weight limitations that cause these types of issues?
    Yes, each block type has a maximum mass it can support.

    Old, but still accurate...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hq_HxCqgyU

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    Quote Originally Posted by SylenThunder View Post
    Yes, each block type has a maximum mass it can support.

    Old, but still accurate...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hq_HxCqgyU
    Really ?

    So a soil or a rock layer will collapse under you if you build too tall ?

    The way I have understood it so far (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the "Max load" is the HORIZONTAL max load (mass) you can attach to the given blocks side. Vertically (up-down direction) all that is supposed to matter is the path to bedrock. You can, supposedly, erect a pole of only wooden frames about hundred tiles high with no issues.

    I do have observed strange things happening. Like if you have a stable pillar and you place a wooden frame next to it and then remove it the middle block of the pillar collapsing. But as long as you do not place and remove any block adjactent to the base of the pillar its stable.

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    Nomad theFlu's Avatar
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    The OP is a bit too vague to know what's going on; but I can safely assume it's NOT a solid 40x40 steel pillar from bedrock? If you have a 40x40 platform supported from bedrock by X pillars, and then a structure on top of that, you're most likely running into the 15-block-limit. As in, if the path from a block to the nearest supported-from-bedrock block is more than 14 blocks, the block will be unstable. Running on it or attaching a block to it will cause it to fall.

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    Inventor Boidster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by empirebattles View Post
    Sometimes, when i go down to bedrock and build a pillar, once it gets past a certain height, it starts to collapse as well.
    This is odd. I too have been under the impression (and to date never contradicted by in-game behavior) that any pillar of blocks which are solid to bedrock (and with no side-hanging blocks) could be of arbitrary height. I did not think the max weight stat had anything to do with weight on the top surface, assuming a straight vertical connection to bedrock.

    Yes, each block type has a maximum mass it can support.

    Old, but still accurate...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hq_HxCqgyU
    That video, at about 3:20, repeats exactly the idea I'm positing. There is no weight limit for vertical pillars. Never has been as far as I know, but OP's experience...makes me go hmmm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boidster View Post
    There is no weight limit for vertical pillars. Never has been as far as I know, but OP's experience...makes me go hmmm.
    This sounds a lot like a bug that was happening to players in A18.0-A18.2. I'm not sure if that bug ever did get fixed but that might be it. \_(ツ)_/

    EDIT: I just skimmed through a bunch of bug reports but cannot find anyone reporting this "bug" I'm talking about so maybe TFP do not know about it. Maybe what I'm thinking of never was a bug and players bases just collapsing is due to what SylenThunder proposed.
    Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:32 PM.

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    yeah, i was testing some pit bases, and i had a solid steel block from bedrock to surface, angled tips on 2 sides (to seem solid to pathing, but you fall through), and then a lip that is 3 wide (blocks only at the top), and then the center of the structure was solid steel from bedrock to surface (was planning on carving it out to put a base in). The "Center" is about 40x40 (and about 60 blocks high).

    But no matter what I do, once i start adding blocks to the sides (the wedge tips and such), the center starts to collapse...somewhere.

    Screenshot_1.jpg
    This is an example of the pit 'empty'. Steel from surface to bedrock, with a layer of steel at bedrock.

    Screenshot_2.jpg
    This is an example of the 'surface'. Steel blocks across, wedge tips to form a 'drop hole'. Below wedge tips are 1/2 block st steel (again, touching, but allows zombie falling). The 'surface' steel only is 1 thick for about 4 blocks from the 'edge'. After the 4th block, it is solid steel again.

    Screenshot_3.jpg
    This is one of the last collapses that took place. It ends up collapsing all the way down to the bottom steel block (not all the way to bedrock itself,but the block above it).


    It has me puzzled.... and i'm gunna probably attempt a similar design, just a bit smaller, but i dont want to do that if there's something that will cause structures that large/heavy to have problems


    I'm BETTING it has something to do with either wedge tips or 1/2 blocks, screwing with the integrity somehow...but dont know for sure
    Last edited by empirebattles; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:44 PM.

  8. #8
    Inventor Boidster's Avatar
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    Wow, so it is a solid mass of steel blocks down to bedrock that is collapsing in on itself. Neat? Kinda? :-)

    There was a video I watched a few months back that showed some quirks in the SI logic with very large structures. Every time you place a block the SI has to do a bunch of recalculations of every connected block, and the blocks those are connected to, and so on (with some cutoff logic I'm sure when no further SI issues are possible, say when every surrounding block calculates as 'solid to bedrock').

    And but so, the video showed that with some very large structures, SI calcs would kind of freak out and not propagate correctly through the whole structure, if I'm remembering it correctly. If you knew how to exploit it, you could build 'impossible' structures that would stay up even though they appeared to violate basic SI rules (like the 15 block rule). I guess you have the opposite issue - a very 'possible' structure that is nevertheless failing SI checks.

    I have no solution, just throwing that out there. Oh, also - isn't there a debug mode SI checker or somesuch? I've only read about it (or hallucinated it); I don't use dm very much at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boidster View Post
    Wow, so it is a solid mass of steel blocks down to bedrock that is collapsing in on itself. Neat? Kinda? :-)

    There was a video I watched a few months back that showed some quirks in the SI logic with very large structures. Every time you place a block the SI has to do a bunch of recalculations of every connected block, and the blocks those are connected to, and so on (with some cutoff logic I'm sure when no further SI issues are possible, say when every surrounding block calculates as 'solid to bedrock').

    And but so, the video showed that with some very large structures, SI calcs would kind of freak out and not propagate correctly through the whole structure, if I'm remembering it correctly. If you knew how to exploit it, you could build 'impossible' structures that would stay up even though they appeared to violate basic SI rules (like the 15 block rule). I guess you have the opposite issue - a very 'possible' structure that is nevertheless failing SI checks.

    I have no solution, just throwing that out there. Oh, also - isn't there a debug mode SI checker or somesuch? I've only read about it (or hallucinated it); I don't use dm very much at all.
    yeah... i assume its either too large in total area for the SI calcs, or the 1/2 blocks &/or wedge tips throw it off.... (or a combination of both).

    I'm going to try the same thing.... just.... smaller Make a minimized base in the center... and use only dimensions needed....see if it fixes anything

  10. #10
    Colony Founder Ghostlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehnomaag View Post
    Really ?

    So a soil or a rock layer will collapse under you if you build too tall ?
    No it won't. We recently got affected by the old bug where your vehicles can suddenly leap to max ceiling. They were simply tiny specs in the sky at max height in the game. We nerd-poled up on wooden crates to get them back down and had no issues. Was about 400 wooden crates, right to max ceiling. Didn't collapse.

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    Last edited by ZombieSurvivor; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:33 PM.

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    Strange, I am playing 18.3 and just made a pillar of flagstone from bedrock to surface, and then + about 15 more blocks. I only did a single pillar to bedrock, and to the rock point I did an "L" shape first and then filled it in so it would make a sheath for my drop down to my stairs down, and had no issues.

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    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    What's more weird to me is using steel blocks for parts of the base the zombies couldn't possibly interact with. Seems like way way too much overbuild to me.

  14. #14
    Inventor Boidster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    What's more weird to me is using steel blocks for parts of the base the zombies couldn't possibly interact with. Seems like way way too much overbuild to me.
    OMG bro do you even Demolisher? /s

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