Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 70

Thread: Pay 2 Win v Donations??

  1. #16
    Inventor wicketness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    841
    Rep Power
    1
    good info i to am concerned about this, but i don't sell items i just ask for donations to fund the server and if they donate enough and wish to be come part of my admin team or a server renting partner i give them admin rights and the duties that come with it.

    this is how i built my admin team i found when people like what you are doing they will donate freely and be responsible when given admin rights
    i also train them with the various commands and show them how to deal with pkers and i also allow them to replace lost items due to bugs, like the forge ate my iron ingots or my B&E is gone, mind you all my servers are PvE and only 1 pvp server.

    for me dedicated servers are the only way to go they cost alot i went from 35 a month to almost 400 in canada funds, now the ones that donate the most i usually offer them a server to run for them self with my rules and guidelines to follow for me this has been a great success.

    thanks to the donations i now have a total of 8 servers all paid for with donations with me picking up whats left over, still is a couple hundred from my pocket alone so basically donations to fund the dedi and i donate a server for them to run as they see fit, with me handling all set up server managers and updates for them.

    i just got worried when i saw legal action lol so i thought i would post and see if i am ok, i am not breaking any rules i don't think and my group is growing nicely i have a awesome team most just send donations and don't want anything they just like they way i set things up.

    any advice would be good, and i also use all funds on the server i never see any which i prefer i rather have my group and dedi then use it on anything else, this is me just being honest and it works.

  2. #17
    Fun Pimps Staff
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    142
    Rep Power
    2
    Yes wicketness you are fine. Your server is accepting donations at which point if users are responsible and donate frequently you make them an admin for supporting the server and playing a lot. This is fine. What isn't fine is using the game to make money on a product you did not make. (Selling items in game for money)

  3. #18
    Inventor wicketness's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    841
    Rep Power
    1
    Phew lol ok game on lol

  4. #19
    Survivor
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    66
    Rep Power
    0
    The first thing I look when joining a server is to see if they offer donation perks or cash shop. If they have one I'm out. I hate P2W and credit card warriors.

  5. #20
    Colony Founder CongoBongo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    In the deep Congo
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Angel_of_Wrath View Post
    Mind=nuked. Pay to win.....this game. WTF....in alpha. Really in f-ing alpha when an update makes you reset ...you spend REAL money on something.
    Yeah man, check out H1Z1, they do the pay-to-win and its alpha!! and SONY made it lmao. P2W is here to stay since so many people use it, if they didn't, there would be no P2W.
    Worse, you have to buy the game now, in alpha. But, when it releases, it will be free.

    You want your mind blown, consider it done! :P

  6. #21
    Colony Founder Lordicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Green Spring, WV
    Posts
    1,437
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Brains View Post
    Server owners may ask for donations to help fund the server. However, they cannot give any in game benefits for donations (extra tools, blocks, etc). When this occurs, it is no longer a donation but a purchase. If you see any server operators doing such a thing, please feel free to report them and legal actions will take place.
    What the Brains said; However, by law collecting donations by selling in game pixels is illegal in some places, mainly because YOU do NOT own the game. No matter if you purchased the game online or not you are not the sole owner of the said game and the developers are. If I am not mistaken 7DTD is copyright property of The Pimps so they are not selling you a copy of the game when you purchase it but selling you the ability to play their game that they own. So in a way you would be selling items in game to a group of people and you do not own the items to sell them, this is called theft people.

    However there is a legal work around for a donation system that a lot of server have gone by in the past. Its called proper wording on your donation website, You have to have everything in writing word for word the correct way and written up with a lawyer to sign and date. I will not post what you have to do to make it legal here on these forums because I do not promote this in any way shape or form but I would be happy to explain through private message on the forums to any developer that is curious.

  7. #22
    Colony Founder Lordicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Green Spring, WV
    Posts
    1,437
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Lordicon View Post
    What the Brains said; However, by law collecting donations by selling in game pixels is illegal in some places, mainly because YOU do NOT own the game. No matter if you purchased the game online or not you are not the sole owner of the said game and the developers are. If I am not mistaken 7DTD is copyright property of The Pimps so they are not selling you a copy of the game when you purchase it but selling you the ability to play their game that they own. So in a way you would be selling items in game to a group of people and you do not own the items to sell them, this is called theft people.

    However there is a legal work around for a donation system that a lot of server have gone by in the past. Its called proper wording on your donation website, You have to have everything in writing word for word the correct way and written up with a lawyer to sign and date. I will not post what you have to do to make it legal here on these forums because I do not promote this in any way shape or form but I would be happy to explain through private message on the forums to any developer that is curious.
    To add to my first post what the http://behemoth.hlop.eu/ website is doing is selling coins supplied using this [Free][Open Source] 7DTD Manager / Wallet Manager or one of the other server managers that was posted using the coin system kinda like what rust had. This is a very thin line of legal and not legal. He is not really selling items in game as much as selling coins that can be used to buy items. Why I said its a thin line they are crossing is because he is using the word purchasing and buy which are an indication of selling the in game items for the fake currency that can be purchased. In a way this is illegal and The Pimps could take action with the courts. But he could always argue that he is not selling any items in game for real money and is only selling the coins which can be traded in for items in game. Like I said its a very thin line. His wording on his website is what will get him sued for sure.

  8. #23
    Ranger
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    0
    It looks like this is headed down the same road as minecraft and similar titles. The company that makes the game isn't providing servers and expects the players to fill that role... which is fair in the context of giving the player to power to modify the server specifically to their needs (highly moddable). In all but the smallest use cases, the server demand significant hardware resources which don't come cheap, which drives a desire to share the bill across several players. Benevolence is often not a powerful enough force to facilitate that bill sharing, and so many server operators turn to offering incentives... unsurprisingly. The pimps seem to want to restrict those incentives to avoid some of the more toxic arrangements, but have to allow for some grey area if they want to a culture where large servers can flourish.

    When I'm looking for a server in minecraft, I typically screen the servers to rule out any that offer direct item rewards or overwhelming privilege. I find the best middle ground are servers that offer convenience features in exchange for a small monthly 'donation'. Things like being able to warp back to your home or set up a shop at a hub city are worthwhile without being game breaking to those that can't afford to pay. I expect I'll approach future 7DtD servers in the same way once these incentives become widespread.

  9. #24
    Fun Pimps Staff
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    142
    Rep Power
    2
    Actually we ARE providing servers. All of our preferred partners have provided numerous servers for the public to play on.

  10. #25
    Ranger
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Brains View Post
    Actually we ARE providing servers. All of our preferred partners have provided numerous servers for the public to play on.
    That's really cool.. and somehow I didn't even know that. I thought the partners were just suggested shops for players to buy hosting instead of having to negotiate with the random assortment of often shady hosts out there. I doubt it is enough to cover the total demand though, but it should set a solid baseline for testing. I say that, because I suspect that the hosting for the entire 7DtD multiplayer playerbase would be prohibitively expensive without a monthly fee from the players. I suspect 7DtD will surely depend on player run servers to meet most demand.

    Got to say, 7DtD has been a blast!

  11. #26
    Tracker
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    222
    Rep Power
    0
    Its funny how now all the BS reasons why fighing this is a "bad" thing pop up.

    Reality is - its easy to differentiate between making money with 7daystodie and requesting donations to keep your server running.

    Also the arguments about costs are pointless aswell. Like in any other game people wanting to run a server pay for it - its not that expensive if you team up and actually have a job. This whole pay2win bull♥♥♥♥ by the "cumminty" where people are beeing utilized with ingame items is rather new. It should be clear to anyone that ingame shops where one buys items for real money are meant to take advantage of people buying such ... and make cash and not to just run a server ...

    - - - Updated - - -

    From my point of view there is no difference between this and paying for cheats ...

    Hopefully servers trying to do this will be taken down asap.

  12. #27
    Colony Founder Lordicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Green Spring, WV
    Posts
    1,437
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by HerbKerbal View Post
    Its funny how now all the BS reasons why fighing this is a "bad" thing pop up.

    Reality is - its easy to differentiate between making money with 7daystodie and requesting donations to keep your server running.

    Also the arguments about costs are pointless aswell. Like in any other game people wanting to run a server pay for it - its not that expensive if you team up and actually have a job. This whole pay2win bull♥♥♥♥ by the "cumminty" where people are beeing utilized with ingame items is rather new. It should be clear to anyone that ingame shops where one buys items for real money are meant to take advantage of people buying such ... and make cash and not to just run a server ...

    - - - Updated - - -

    From my point of view there is no difference between this and paying for cheats ...

    Hopefully servers trying to do this will be taken down asap.
    Not expensive? ROFL I have been paying for my own server for well over 4 years with NO donations whatsoever. My server cost me $210 a month plus I have to pay for my website that goes with my server. Its VERY expensive. Sure you could rent a cheap server and cause players to lag to death or only have a player base of 3 players but I like it when the players are happy...

  13. #28
    Ranger
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    289
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Lordicon View Post
    Not expensive? ROFL I have been paying for my own server for well over 4 years with NO donations whatsoever. My server cost me $210 a month plus I have to pay for my website that goes with my server. Its VERY expensive. Sure you could rent a cheap server and cause players to lag to death or only have a player base of 3 players but I like it when the players are happy...
    That sounds about right for a good dedicated system in an actual server farm with a good network and people ready to service it as needed. Most people see prices for virtual hosts, which means your server is running on the same machine has 15 others, competing for resources. If you're lucky, someone is reselling a professional solution. If not, it is a machine run in some dude's basement or worse yet...a dorm room. I'm glad the pimps have vetted some partners to rent from. At least they're likely to be held to a reasonable standard.

  14. #29
    Colony Founder Deccypher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Lurking
    Posts
    2,300
    Rep Power
    1
    Im working on a mod that rewards loyal players. it will take into account alot of things, score, zombies killed/players killed #of crafted items. time spent online. # of posts on the server's website forum donations given, bug reports from the several mods I'm developing.
    rewards will be varied depending on the overall reward level and they come in the form if a air drop with set items in them once a week around your bedroll. but reading this post I'm worried that it may be concired pay to win should i remove the donation from the equation.

    is the whole concept of loyalty rewards considered p2w?

  15. #30
    Inventor Henshaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Outskirts of Old Mole, Navezgane.
    Posts
    844
    Rep Power
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Deccypher View Post
    Im working on a mod that rewards loyal players. it will take into account alot of things, score, zombies killed/players killed #of crafted items. time spent online. # of posts on the server's website forum donations given, bug reports from the several mods I'm developing.
    rewards will be varied depending on the overall reward level and they come in the form if a air drop with set items in them once a week around your bedroll. but reading this post I'm worried that it may be concired pay to win should i remove the donation from the equation.

    is the whole concept of loyalty rewards considered p2w?
    Edited: If it is not p2w or even illegal, I would say it's very shady in the least. Reward for money is always a bad idea, no matter how you look at it.
    Last edited by Henshaw; 04-24-2015 at 08:53 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •