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Thread: Valmod Pack

  1. #31
    Colony Founder Siveria's Avatar
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    Val, love the mod, though I do feel the starter class packages gives some pretty overpowered items for the dead start of the game, but anyway I was wondering if you could make a version of your mod pack that has your falling trees begone thing as part of it.

  2. #32
    Colony Founder Valmar's Avatar
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    @Rathlon

    In theory it is possible. Though it would take a lot of elbow grease. From what I know of DTD7 it introduces quite a lot of new items to the mix. These items would need to be added to the new recipe books and the Survivor Note system would have to be readjusted to accommodate.

    Again, it should be possible. Though it isn't something I'd be willing to do for you, I'm afraid. It's quite a bit of work. Though I could help, that much support I could offer. I do not know if my class system will balance well with what all DTD7 offers, either. While the author (who isn't on the forum anymore, coincidentally) graciously credits me as "co-founder" of the mod I actually had nothing to do with its construction, I just "allowed" him to use a few of my mods. So I don't really know everything he's added or done to the game that would need to be addressed for my class mod.

    You could undertake this yourself (again, it should be possible) if you have the free time to do so. I suspect it will take a while, though I could be wrong. There are many things to consider. Like the miner he introduces to the game, will it be exclusive to the miner class or will everyone able to make it? A lot of little things like that.

    The reason the majority of my mod can be found in different parts (for example if you just wanted X, Y, Z I have a separate mod page that just has those bits) but the class system is exclusive to this is due to it simply being more complicated. Its tailored specifically for all the changes I've introduces such as my new blocks and items. It can of course be made into a separate, independent mod tailored towards vanilla. Doing so requires time I dont have at the moment and plus it would have to be kept updated with the game so there is extra burden in that.

    If it isn't a project you can take on yourself you could to the mod author and request he look into it. He's more than welcome to, as is anyone who is interested (you don't have to ask). Though contacting him would require you going to the Noob site forum listed in the OP of this topic. He might still read this page even if he can't actually respond to it so you might be able to leave a request here but I don't know. It's a tricky situation.



    @Siveria

    What items would you say are too OP? You also need to keep in mind that due to the class system many of them won't be able to do basic things like crafting stone axes, bows, or even doors. They are also survivors of a zombie outbreak that has been plaguing the land for a while now. Though I'm open to any feedback regarding balancing issues, feel free to share your thoughts on it.

    As for the trees, I won't make a version for that because it would have to be kept updated and just add more to the work flow. However that mod is very easy to add and you should be able to handle it yourself. All it requires is a simple line of code to be added to the trees. It isn't hard just time consuming because there are a ton of trees in the blocks.xml.

    <property name="FallOver" value="false" />


    That's literally the only line you need for it. You just have to copy/paste it into every tree (you can find them all by searching for ModelTree).

    If you use Notepad++ you should be able to do this for the entire in like five seconds.

    Hit Ctrl+F to bring up search then go to the "replace" tab.

    Find what: <property name="Class" value="ModelTree" />
    Replace with: <property name="Class" value="ModelTree" /> <property name="FallOver" value="false" />

    Hit the "Replace All" button. Tada. That should had done it and you should be fine now. Let me know if that helps.

  3. #33
    Colony Founder Siveria's Avatar
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    Well damn didn't know notepad++ could do that, that made that easy. I've had notepad++ for ages too. one other mod I use myself is to change the forge in blocks.xml to drop itself when destroyed. WHich means I can either A: find the mats to make one then have it forever, or B: get lucky enough to find a prefab that has a forge in it that I can scavenge.

    I also tend to change the steel pickaxe too, I remove its dmg penalty to wood, change its hold type to 17 (fireaxe), then change its delay to 1.0, since its bascally the endgame tool. The fireaxe is still better than the steel pickaxe until the steel pickaxe hits block damage double the fire axe's block damage. I also have noticed the pickaxe's have no dmg bonus vs stone or steel, which means if you changed the fireaxe block damage from a max of 10 to a max of 12, you could just use the fireaxe for anything you'd use the iron pickaxe for. Sometimes I do this anyway just to save a inventory space, sure it takes a few extra hits but meh, inv space is precious.

    Now what I mean by OP is not so much the items you get, but the quality level you get them at. Qual 300 usually takes level 26 to hit reliably. But then again, like you said, because of the class system some classes won't even know how to make a new tool. I usually use the survivor class myself. Has a good bow, a good stone axe, and a hunting knife, bow and knife easly 1 shots normal zeds on headshots on the base diffculty, not that this is hard mind you, all you need is a quality 68 or so normal bow to one shot normal zeds with stone arrows.

    Also any idea how you can make an item that uses the backpack inventory slot for more inventory space? Is this even possible? I mean as long as I can remember i've never seen anything that can go in that slot.

    Lastly, any idea how to restore the games music? I remember way back it had some random music that played during the game, i'd like to get that back, and I am also wondering why the hell they felt the need to remove it.

  4. #34
    Colony Founder Valmar's Avatar
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    I see. I didn't think green was so great but I will look into adjusting them with the next update. I play on Warrior difficulty which is a step up from normal and that probably has something to do with it aswell.

    While I can't say its impossible I certainly don't know of any way to increase backpack size. It might be possible with asset modding but thats beyond me.

    I'm not sure about the music. That would likely be possible with asset modding... though again, I don't know. I only touch xml files. As for why they removed it... if I had to guess it was either not part of their vision for the game or there were copyright issues. There was this pretty cool zombie skin they had a while back that was removed due to copyright if I recall correctly.

  5. #35
    Survivor whitelace's Avatar
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    Love it Thank you so much for sharing.

  6. #36
    Colony Founder Valmar's Avatar
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    Question: To make the Survivor class more attractive what if I give it a low-quality minibike to start off with? How does that sound? Too much?

  7. #37
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    I feel like that class is pretty attractive as it is TBH. Has great starting stuff.

    Edit: I almost forgot. Me and some friends tested that idea of removing the skill book drops, and then added survivor note drops where skill books usually drop and its been great. Whole new experience. Feels less random now
    Last edited by coldstance; 08-16-2015 at 06:49 AM.

  8. #38
    Colony Founder Siveria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valmar View Post
    Question: To make the Survivor class more attractive what if I give it a low-quality minibike to start off with? How does that sound? Too much?
    I actually personally think the survivor class has one of the best starter kits myself. A good tool, a good melee and a good ranged weapon, and starts you with enough useful recipies that the start is not a struggle. The low qual minibike thing is fine if you can somehow do it without including the book, this way you still need to find that to upgrade it, be sure to include the basket on it. Maybe make it like 50 qual, reallllly ♥♥♥♥ty one but its something to upgrade after you get the book. Its durability is not an issue if you don't drive it into zombies, it doesn't seem to take damage otherwise. Maybe include a gas can or 2, if in random gen you may not find any for a while heh.

  9. #39
    Colony Founder Valmar's Avatar
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    Really, I kinda felt like it was the weak link. Well, that and Medic.

    It doesn't really start off with anything "unique" to its class. The only perk it has is that it has more starting consumables. Which is more of a short-term perk. Once those run out the only thing it has going for it is the the quality bow, which is something a Hunter can make aswell. It seems to me that in in long-term perspective the other classes have many things that will always be useful whereas the survivor will only benefit from its bonuses early on.

    I don't believe its possible to give someone a minibike without the book. They wouldn't be able to actually craft it then, would they?

    I could perhaps give them a Survivor's Journal - though its still a short-term advantage.

  10. #40
    Inventor TehAgent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valmar View Post
    Really, I kinda felt like it was the weak link. Well, that and Medic.

    It doesn't really start off with anything "unique" to its class. The only perk it has is that it has more starting consumables. Which is more of a short-term perk. Once those run out the only thing it has going for it is the the quality bow, which is something a Hunter can make aswell. It seems to me that in in long-term perspective the other classes have many things that will always be useful whereas the survivor will only benefit from its bonuses early on.

    I don't believe its possible to give someone a minibike without the book. They wouldn't be able to actually craft it then, would they?

    I could perhaps give them a Survivor's Journal - though its still a short-term advantage.
    Maybe just give the survivor more knowledge to start, and more experience. A bit of a head start I guess. In my own humble opinion, a minibike is endgame and even a very poor one right off the get go would be too much. Most players would pick that class as it would have a clear advantage over the others.

    Another idea would be to add a custom melee weapon that is better than the others, and only the survivor can craft it. IE a non lootable book (note in this case) to make it comes with their class but does not exist in loot. Make it craftable so the Survivor can 'teach' others to make it if he or she chooses.

  11. #41
    Colony Founder Valmar's Avatar
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    They have knowledge, its just that they don't have any "exclusives".

    Minibikes being end game isn't a big concern for me, honestly. A lot of things are considered "end game" for some people. Most of which some classes start off with. Such as sniper schematics, forge schematics, steel schematics. Hell, in a way, in my mod, even crafting wood frames could be considered end-game for some classes. Being able to craft a minibike doesn't instantly translate into a player having a garage full of them. In my experience on the server I play on practically no one had minibikes because of how difficult the loot can be to find to actually put them together - though I suspect they focused too heavily on searching cars. The few that were made apparently fall out the map rather consistently if the surge of complaints is anything to go by.

    They'd have the immediate advantage of having a minibike to start with (unless it immediately glitches out the map) but of course they still have to worry about maintaining it and keeping it fueled. Whereas other classes have such advantages as superior guns, superior ammos, more crafting options, superior tools... mostly everything they get is something that can continue being useful all the way to end-game. Being able to make a quality weapons is always useful. Being able to make quality tools is always useful. Currently the only thing the survivor has is the quality bow which isn't even exclusive to it's class. Giving it a minibike would give it something that stands out as an advantage for longer than the first few days, I believe.

    While some may pick it just for the minibike the survivor also comes with a lot of disadvantages. Not being able to build simple building materials like woodframes is kinda a big deal, after all. Every class is SUPPOSED to have clear advantages over the others - its just also always offset by the disadvantages. Sure you have the minibike but I have the forge and mining. Or I have the building. Or I have the guns and ammo. They all have their advantages over others. Hence why its a class system.

    Coincidentally the minbike book, if someone REALLY wants it that bad, is something you can get with the Survivor Note system with 20 notes.


    A custom melee weapon is an option but then we have the Bruiser class which is ideal for CQC and favors melee and shotguns. I've always pictured the survivor being less the melee character and more the character that knows when to pick his battles. Instead of clearing out a horde he knows how to escape without causing a fuss. He survives. A minibike seems appropriate for such a character.

    Having a "teaching" system sounds kinda nice but I suspect balancing it will be a bit of an issue. Though I have some ideas for how it could work. I will consider it, thanks for the suggestion.


    Perhaps some cooking recipes could be locked behind a book that the Survivor can start off with. Or a special campfire that produces less heat map. Hm.

  12. #42
    Inventor TehAgent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valmar View Post
    They have knowledge, its just that they don't have any "exclusives".

    Minibikes being end game isn't a big concern for me, honestly. A lot of things are considered "end game" for some people. Most of which some classes start off with. Such as sniper schematics, forge schematics, steel schematics. Hell, in a way, in my mod, even crafting wood frames could be considered end-game for some classes. Being able to craft a minibike doesn't instantly translate into a player having a garage full of them. In my experience on the server I play on practically no one had minibikes because of how difficult the loot can be to find to actually put them together - though I suspect they focused too heavily on searching cars. The few that were made apparently fall out the map rather consistently if the surge of complaints is anything to go by.

    They'd have the immediate advantage of having a minibike to start with (unless it immediately glitches out the map) but of course they still have to worry about maintaining it and keeping it fueled. Whereas other classes have such advantages as superior guns, superior ammos, more crafting options, superior tools... mostly everything they get is something that can continue being useful all the way to end-game. Being able to make a quality weapons is always useful. Being able to make quality tools is always useful. Currently the only thing the survivor has is the quality bow which isn't even exclusive to it's class. Giving it a minibike would give it something that stands out as an advantage for longer than the first few days, I believe.

    While some may pick it just for the minibike the survivor also comes with a lot of disadvantages. Not being able to build simple building materials like woodframes is kinda a big deal, after all. Every class is SUPPOSED to have clear advantages over the others - its just also always offset by the disadvantages. Sure you have the minibike but I have the forge and mining. Or I have the building. Or I have the guns and ammo. They all have their advantages over others. Hence why its a class system.

    Coincidentally the minbike book, if someone REALLY wants it that bad, is something you can get with the Survivor Note system with 20 notes.


    A custom melee weapon is an option but then we have the Bruiser class which is ideal for CQC and favors melee and shotguns. I've always pictured the survivor being less the melee character and more the character that knows when to pick his battles. Instead of clearing out a horde he knows how to escape without causing a fuss. He survives. A minibike seems appropriate for such a character.

    Having a "teaching" system sounds kinda nice but I suspect balancing it will be a bit of an issue. Though I have some ideas for how it could work. I will consider it, thanks for the suggestion.


    Perhaps some cooking recipes could be locked behind a book that the Survivor can start off with. Or a special campfire that produces less heat map. Hm.
    So can players never craft wood frames, or is it a thing a Survivor can learn? The extreme mobility of a Minibike would be a clear choice for me, as if I can wind up making anything any other class can, Id choose that and just use the Minibike to get around and acquire the skills I need to be on par with the rest of the classes. Mobility and the ability to scavenge/loot more effectively is a huge, huge thing to have. Thats why Minibikes are difficult to make.

    I suppose you can just test it out and see how many players choose Survivor class for the bike over others. We can make predictions all day, but in the end its like this:

    B5lEdESCEAANhyI.jpg

    I dont know enough about your mod to make solid projections; just throwing some stuff out there.

  13. #43
    Colony Founder Valmar's Avatar
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    "For starters I've completely locked down the recipe grid. Now even simple things that we're used to being able to make day 1 are behind books. Don't worry however as they can all be obtained by the Survivor Note system and some can be found in loot."

    Only builders start off with the ability to make wood materials. Anyone else would have to either find the "Handyman Carpentry" book or exchange 20 survivor notes for it.

    Sure, survivors would have mobility and can learn the "basics" later. Except... the same exact thing can be said of every other class. I could be a builder and learn guns later. I could be a gunner and learn the building later. Some might prefer starting with a minibike while some prefer starting with building recipes.

    There is also the detail of exclusive class-specific recipes. Mainly, Quality weapons and tools. Every class has something special that only it can make. Anyone can learn how to make a pickaxe, for example, only miners can make Quality Pickaxe. Anyone can learn how to make a pistol but only the Gunner will be able to make a quality pistol.

    Currently the only thing special about the survivor is the Quality Bow. This is is a superior bow that you can't find or learn the recipe for normally. Except the Hunter class also knows the recipe for the Quality Bow - along with Quality Crossbow. So the survivor class has no real exclusive perk that is special just to it.

    I'm not sure you're understanding how the class system works with my mod. There is no getting "on par" with other classes. They'll always have an advantage in some form or another. That is the point of the Quality system. Miners will always have better mining tools. Gun classes will always have better guns. Bruiser will always have better melee. Hell, right off the bat the bruiser has the best armor protection of all of them and will likely last longer than most since you can't find armor in my mod or recipes for it - they can only be gained via Class choices or via the Survivor Note system.

    They can still all use the "normal" stuff, sure, but each class has something special that will give it an advantage. A survivor will never be as good of a miner as a miner or as good of a gunner as a gunner. Not unless those classes specifically GIVE him their tools/weapons. Teamwork has its benefits.

    My issue comes from the fact that the survivor has nothing exclusively his that no other class gets.
    Last edited by Valmar; 08-16-2015 at 07:21 PM.

  14. #44
    Inventor TehAgent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valmar View Post
    "For starters I've completely locked down the recipe grid. Now even simple things that we're used to being able to make day 1 are behind books. Don't worry however as they can all be obtained by the Survivor Note system and some can be found in loot."

    Only builders start off with the ability to make wood materials. Anyone else would have to either find the "Handyman Carpentry" book or exchange 20 survivor notes for it.

    Sure, survivors would have mobility and can learn the "basics" later. Except... the same exact thing can be said of every other class. I could be a builder and learn guns later. I could be a gunner and learn the building later. Some might prefer starting with a minibike while some prefer starting with building recipes.

    There is also the detail of exclusive class-specific recipes. Mainly, Quality weapons and tools. Every class has something special that only it can make. Anyone can learn how to make a pickaxe, for example, only miners can make Quality Pickaxe. Anyone can learn how to make a pistol but only the Gunner will be able to make a quality pistol.

    Currently the only thing special about the survivor is the Quality Bow. This is is a superior bow that you can't find or learn the recipe for normally. Except the Hunter class also knows the recipe for the Quality Bow - along with Quality Crossbow. So the survivor class has no real exclusive perk that is special just to it.

    I'm not sure you're understanding how the class system works with my mod. There is no getting "on par" with other classes. They'll always have an advantage in some form or another. That is the point of the Quality system. Miners will always have better mining tools. Gun classes will always have better guns. Bruiser will always have better melee. Hell, right off the bat the bruiser has the best armor protection of all of them and will likely last longer than most since you can't find armor in my mod or recipes for it - they can only be gained via Class choices or via the Survivor Note system.

    They can still all use the "normal" stuff, sure, but each class has something special that will give it an advantage. A survivor will never be as good of a miner as a miner or as good of a gunner as a gunner. Not unless those classes specifically GIVE him their tools/weapons. Teamwork has its benefits.

    My issue comes from the fact that the survivor has nothing exclusively his that no other class gets.
    I saw that, but you started talking about wood frames in comparison with a Minibike.

    Just trying to offer some input on balance. I hope you find the balance you want to find with your project. Good luck.

  15. #45
    Colony Founder Valmar's Avatar
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    Because they are good comparisons that relate to each other in the sense of being an advantage/disadvantage. Being able to make woodframes right off the bat is an advantage. Being able to make a minibike right off the bat is also an advantage. You said most would choose Survivor just for the minibike as it would be a clear advantage. I'm trying to illustrate how, relative to all the other classes, they all have advantages.

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