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Thread: the few things that should not have been changed in alpha 14

  1. #16
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    The the ability to easily grind up mining tools and tool crafting you can dig a pitfall to bedrock in one day, on default day length, that would be large enough to handle a 7 day horde. It might be a struggle to have it ready in time for the 1st such horde but in the second week I'm usually to high green if not blue quality tools and using steel tools. Mining levels up so fast that you'll be breaking stone in two swings. Even with the argument that this takes an investment of time it takes less time, less resources, and is safer than the alternatives.

  2. #17
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    Y'know I kinda wish that if two-three zombie corpses formed on top of each other it'd create a gore block? Like just a solid block of grossness. So even if you had a moat you'd occasionally have to go down and clean out all the collected gore, or risk it *actually filling up with zombies*

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whorhay View Post
    The the ability to easily grind up mining tools and tool crafting you can dig a pitfall to bedrock in one day, on default day length, that would be large enough to handle a 7 day horde. It might be a struggle to have it ready in time for the 1st such horde but in the second week I'm usually to high green if not blue quality tools and using steel tools. Mining levels up so fast that you'll be breaking stone in two swings. Even with the argument that this takes an investment of time it takes less time, less resources, and is safer than the alternatives.
    So you're saying that in order to defeat mass-crafting min/maxers, who are inherently undefeatable, the devs should eliminate a valid tactic from everybody, regardless that it creates really silly situations like zombies jumping off of roofs or cliffs and landing unharmed...

    And I am saying that if you made spikes instead of tools, and cut trees and made more spikes instead of digging, you would have WAY more killing power in the form of spikes before the day 7 horde than you would have by setting up a single fatal drop-pit that they may or may not path into...

  4. #19
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    Truth be told, I do think they should have kept the fall damage killing zombies. Put it this way, its a significant time investment even with an Auger to dig through a moat large and deep enough to protect your house. As many have mentioned, in that same amount of time, one could easily place rows of spikes, mines, etc.

    This is really one thing in which we should plump for realism rather than just gameplay. For a zombie to survive a significant fall from height simply doesn't make much sense. We as the players are already subjected to the laws of gravity in game. But the zombies within this game have long gone past the idea of most conventional zombies. They already have hands with the hitting power of demolition trucks when it comes to buildings and they also are able to defy the laws of physics and gravity.

  5. #20
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    I'd like to have effective fall traps also, but I can recognize that it'd just be too game breaking. With the spikes you can't just set it up and forget about it forever. You have to make new spikes/repair which costs time and resources. A fall trap reduces the maintenance requirements to an absurdly low minimum. Personally I'd love for us to be able to build machines to grind up the zombies, like a gigantic wood chipper, that would be epic.

  6. #21
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    Considering the time invested to dig out such a deep fall trap to effectively deal with the zombies, i won't consider it game breaking. Another thing to note is that unique zombies are in the game already so they are able to still do some form of damage to players who decide to go that route. Cop zombies right now are able to hurl projectiles pretty far so a simply deep moat is not a sure-fire way to prevent their homes from being wrecked.

    Another thing to consider is that we can make subtle changes to existing zombies

    - Spider zombies should be unaffected by fall damage in addition to being able to scale walls. To make them more unique as well, they should be able to jump a distance of a few blocks. Similar to a jumping spider. That way they'd be able to breach moats or pits.

    - Feral zombies can also be unaffected by fall damage. Hence in order to effectively kill them, an active defense or pit full of spikes is still needed to deal with them.

  7. #22
    Colony Founder LowfDog's Avatar
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    Pits don't break the game, they just aren't worth the time.

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bran- View Post
    if you want a zed proof build go build at sea because zombies do not spawn on water and if your far enough out away from land you will never get a single zombie spawn.
    Totally incorrect, I have a base at bedrock in the middle of a deep lake and get zombies spawning on the lakebed above me all the time.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggy View Post
    Does anyone know for sure if the "no fall damage/death" is intentional or a bug? If so please provide a link.
    I can't find anything in the A14 to A14.5 patch notes.

    I personally really hope the "no fall damage" is a bug.
    I love building/designing fall damage traps. With this element removed, such traps would become almost pointless.
    Base defense in this game is pretty limited, coupled with the fact that there aren't any traps in the game to begin with. By definition a trap is something that grabs and holds. A pressure plate mine is an explosive device. Barbwire is a deterrent. Taking the cable that you find in game and forming it into a snare.. now that's a trap. Setting up snares made of cable that lock down zombies for a few seconds (or even a minute) and if they keep pulling against it, it rips off their leg. That's pretty sweet. It would be a very worth while investment; something to spend time remaking, instead of filling in holes from previous mines and replacing them, creating football fields of spikes or trying to trick/glitch the AI into walking an obstacle course of death

    I certainly understand there's an amount of inescapable monotony, such as rebuilding fallen/broken defenses. But as much as physics plays a role to hinder us in some things, it needs to start helping us. Not having fall damage for zombies is about as one sided as it can get. At the end of the day, it's fight or flight, but if we choose fight, we need to be able to do so without bullets if we're unlucky. (And no, don't add more guns or bullets.) Just provide alternatives that already exist in real life that are easy to figure out and make.

    That's my contribution anyways. Snares made of cable. Ingredients are already in the game; wood, cable, leather. Place a block to anchor it to. Easy peezy. When zombies walk over one it holds them for X amount of seconds and after that time passes, it has X % chance to rip off a leg.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloom_meister View Post
    Totally incorrect, I have a base at bedrock in the middle of a deep lake and get zombies spawning on the lakebed above me all the time.
    I've never had that issue. I'm in a game right now it's day 367 and I have been building in the middle of a lake. So far I have not had one zombie spawn at all. Are you sure you don't have an island above you somewhere?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaggy View Post
    Does anyone know for sure if the "no fall damage/death" is intentional or a bug? If so please provide a link.
    I can't find anything in the A14 to A14.5 patch notes.

    I personally really hope the "no fall damage" is a bug.
    I love building/designing fall damage traps. With this element removed, such traps would become almost pointless.
    Ok, so I see I started a new thread where I should have just used this one, sorry for that. ;-) Let me post the relevant bit here now that I've sorted it out:

    Quote Originally Posted by LeastConcern View Post
    After more reading, I'm now thinking it's a consequence (whether intentional or not, is debatable) of the change announced in Alpha 13 release notes: "Damage to zombie arms/legs cannot kill the zombie, only direct damage to head/chest can kill it now." as part of the new "dismemberment system".

    With this in mind, the current mechanics make sense, but I'd still like to see fall damage looked at specifically. While this change makes sense in the intended context, I still feel like fall damage should kill them at some point.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeastConcern View Post
    (...) about the spikes - another possibly unintended negative consequence of the removal of death from damage to legs is that spike traps must now completely dismember zombie legs before they start taking dmg that could be potentially lethal. Combined with the forced durability reduction every time a spike trap injures, this seems unlikely to be intentional. (here's hoping, lol)
    Mods, feel free to lock my thread.

  12. #27
    Refugee Jaggy's Avatar
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    Thx LeastConcern, that answers my question perfectly.

  13. #28
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    We don't even have to delve into hard-to-animate snares. The classic beartrap would work wonders. A swinging blade with an engine. A booby-trapped door. There are plenty of things that could be done.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bran- View Post
    changes that has removed so many base designs and tactical defenses.
    I agree, madmole stated they want to make the game much easier, I guess for game consoles.
    They want to remove randomness and reduce player skill difference (player, not character) so that n00bs can beat veteran players.
    Madmole stated they are changing the game to accommodate short therm player, who only play the game for less than 100h (total). aka. ADHD players who want all the items and content immediately in the game, who lack patience to actually spent time with the game and having to make effort to find those items.

    Quote Originally Posted by bran- View Post
    the first one would be that zombies can now run in water
    - Extremely illogical unbalanced since water slows down players.

    Quote Originally Posted by bran- View Post
    second one iv noticed is that zombies now take no fall damage they may break there legs but still no damage overall
    I know its to do with moats been impenetrable for zombies to cross making the perfect deference as such.
    but think about it for one second it can take weeks to make a moat that deep even months. so why is it not allowed to work ?
    you can fill an area with spikes as far as the eye can see in that amount of time so why does it not work ?
    - Again illogical and unbalanced. If player spends actual real life days digging the moat it should give them good defence even impenetrable.
    It should not matter if the base is impenetrable game balance and mechanics should make the player WANT to exit the base and explore the amazing infinite random gen map !!!!!

    I could not agree with you more. If player makes the effort to dig down 100m moat they should be rewarded for it. Specially you can make impenetrable base in the game in few minutes, just dig down a hole with ladders and put hatch on it. Or just one row of stick spikes keeps you pretty much safe every non-times-horde days.
    It even kills dog hordes. It takes about 2 minutes to build them.




    Quote Originally Posted by bran- View Post
    no offence but removing the realism of the game due to players thinking creatively is a bad move in anyone's book. why not combat the problem with jumping zombies or flying ones. rather than remove the realism of the game.
    You are contradicting yourself talking about realism and suggesting flying zombies
    You should never, ever use word "realism" in zombie games or you get 1000 wise asses whining how zombies are not real.
    What you and I are talking about is "Logic" it logical is expected certain behaviour of the game. Normally everything that is based on real physics and life is logical.
    Like if something in game representing human body falls down (gravity is expected in environment representing earth-like environment) it is expected to take damage based on the height of the fall and after after falling about 60-100m the damage of impact to hard surface is expected to pulverize the bones and liquify the brain. And since in the game you can destroy the enemy by destroying their head it would be logical that the fall then destroys the enemy.

    -Please NO silly special zombies!!!

    I love to see dev for once actually making an effort balancing the game properly not just adding mini-bosses to balance the game. I have several times suggested adding random body armor (parts) for zombies. From police officers standard body armor to Level IV military full armor, and / or full riot gear which (IRL too) would have 0 protection for bullets but would offer great protection vs. melee weapons. That would add nice complexity and challenge to the game, needing firearms to take out police zed in riot gear. and melee weapons to take out military zombie in full ballistic armor (which IRL gives poor protection vs. melee weapons).
    I think the balance in game was pretty good as you could not camp in your game or you would run out of ammo and arrows. So you needed to explore for ammo and exploring consumed ammo

  15. #30
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    i thank all who agree with me that the fall damage and water running are bugs and are needing a fix thanks for your support ;]
    as you said logic is what is needed in these circumstances and what does that dictate that the problems mentioned are bugs clearly.
    there are other problems in game where logic does not work for example been able to make floating islands by trying to collapse a large amount of earth at once and only a part of it falling which does make making moats and deep holes a problem taking far too much time just clearing the floating rock. atm i think alpha 14 has been a test of new systems and logic which are inferior to alpha 13.8 but necessary for further development of the game for both console and pc. what we need to do now is to try and fix the issues at hand and get back on track with the development of the game. i hope these issues get resolved in the next patch and i would like conformation of such.

    what i would ask now is of anyone who knows of any changes from alpha 13.8 on wards that defy logic, post a comment let me know what you have discovered hopefully it can also be resolved ;]
    Last edited by bran-; 04-27-2016 at 06:32 PM.

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