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Thread: WTH? Can I get some schooling on this game? [single player mode]

  1. #16
    Reconstructionist mdf25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibbler View Post
    Is mining more luck than anything else in finding iron etc by digging rather than mashing rocks on the surface.?
    It seems that having dug down to rock all that I get is 2 iron from 500 rock.
    You only get 2 iron from mining regular stone underground, but if you dig deeper, and around enough, you will run into iron ore eventually (if you find other ores or coal/potassium, you're also near ore).

    If you've found gravel whilst digging, try to dig that out and dig around it, as ores and gravel clump together, just don't let any fall on your face. You will end up with tons of iron once you find your first vein, just keep digging out the ores and gravel and pretty soon you'll have a ton. Forest is always good to mine in, as there is also coal there. If you want oil shale, mine in the desert.

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    Thanks for that. I hoped that it wasn't just luck and that I need to dig deeper and further out. I spend too much time putting splints on my legs after falling off the ladder running up the shaft to the surface.

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    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    @Dibbler: Minding depends on if you're playing Navesgane or Random Gen.

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    .... ah I want aware of that but I'm just playing the default map and not a random generated one.

    Thanks

  5. #20
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    Yeh if I recall nav has "areas" that have ore, unlike rwg that has layers. They may have changed it, dunno.

  6. #21
    Tracker Scary Yapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibbler View Post
    Thanks for that. I hoped that it wasn't just luck and that I need to dig deeper and further out. I spend too much time putting splints on my legs after falling off the ladder running up the shaft to the surface.
    Take your grass, hit "recipe" and make hay bales to place around the bottom of the ladder (and I do mean several blocks adjacent to the bottom block, since I break my leg frequently if I only place one hay bale directly below the ladder).

    I learned recently that the steel pick always gives you iron with rocks, so upgrade that pick if you haven't yet.

    In Navezgane, I find ores everywhere in the pine forest biome especially not just the other grassy woods one. And make sure you don't just make tunnels when you get to the rock levels, because you need to keep expanding the mined area until you find the gravel/sand patches or shiny veins.

    (I just started playing the game with alpha 14, so I don't understand what those wise veterans like Guppycur actually mean about the difference in ores between RWG and Nav. They seem the same to me when I play, but ....[shrug]?)

  7. #22
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    I suck at this game, thank you very much.

    ...nav is a pregenerated map that has ore clusters placed throughout under the ground. As a result, ore is always in the same place in large quantities.

    Random world gen uses an algorithm to decide when to place ore, layer by layer, so when the area is generated, you may have a small vein of ore but more likely you just have stone. Caves have a better chance for generating ore, so find those.

    BUT, I don't keep up with changes well so I could totally be wrong on how it's set up currently.

  8. #23
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    Okay, so I stole this from the config file (via Stompy's site).


    layer (depth: 4 blockname: grass )
    layer (depth: 3 blockname: dirt )
    layer (depth: * blockname: stone )
    resource (blockname: ironOre cluster: 1 prob: 0.1 rwgGenerationType: all )
    resource (blockname: coalOre cluster: 1 prob: 0.1 rwgGenerationType: all )
    resource (blockname: potassiumNitrate cluster: 1 prob: 0.1 rwgGenerationType: all )
    resource (blockname: leadOre cluster: 1 prob: 0.1 rwgGenerationType: all )
    resource (blockname: gravel cluster: 2 prob: 0.1 rwgGenerationType: all )
    layer (depth: 3 blockname: bedrock )


    ...so basically, in the forest biome, the first 4 blocks from the top are grass, the next 3 dirt, the next ones down to bedrock are mostly stone, but with small probabilities to be the other resources. That's how Random World Gen works.

    Nav just has set areas with large amounts of the stuff.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    Just the way I like to play.
    And I have no issue at all with you playing the way you want to play. My concern is when someone asks for help improving and you suggest he plays your way.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    You probably have the aim of William Tell. I do not, so for me I like to keep a good stock of them on me. My accuracy isn't that great.
    I don't have the aim of William Tell. You know what else I don't have? Hundreds of feathers day 1 :P Or even day 2 or 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    True - but you need a wrench first to dismantle the toilets.
    No, you don't. Kill the toilet with a Stone Axe and you'll get one Short Iron Pipe.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    But you can get some good loot from towns and the stores.
    Like...what?

    Serious question -- what are you hoping to find that's worth the time that early in the game? And that's one of my major concerns with your massively, massively extended day lengths when it applies to people asking for help...you're turning a race against time into a carefree stroll through the zombie apocalypse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    You could even find a building to make your base, if your first POI was not adequate
    It's better to build your own base from scratch for numerous reasons -- Construction Tool skill, smaller perimeter, no wasted space, massive XP for doing so, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    Not necessarily true as far as I can tell from the XML - it appears that it wraps every 21 days now I have a closer look at it.
    Dunno about the exact details -- my main point is that you're only going to get 3-6 dogs on Day 5 per pack. Please don't scare the bejeebus out of new players by saying 15 might stroll their way :P

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    The wood ones break a lot easier though, so if the zombies gang up on you from one side of your base, they will chew through them, even with 5-6 layers around
    That would be why you then kite the zombies around the perimeter into fresh spikes!

    Ultimately, if/when I have the resources, I aim for 1-2 layers of Wood Log Spikes right against the base walls and then multiple layers of the cheap spikes outside those. But getting enough Iron to do the Wood Log Spikes properly for week 1 on a normal time frame is a lot more difficult, especially when you're trying to get Reinforced Concrete walls up as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dibbler View Post
    I have enjoyed reading this thread as being new to the game I have found it quite overwhelming to play. I am on day 8 in my game.
    You might find this playlist useful: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ncY9dZqLxmMw08

    Considering doing another playthrough with the goal of aiming it at complete beginners rather than assuming people know the basics. Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scary Yapper View Post
    Take your grass, hit "recipe" and make hay bales to place around the bottom of the ladder (and I do mean several blocks adjacent to the bottom block, since I break my leg frequently if I only place one hay bale directly below the ladder).
    You're doing it wrong. And I'm only so blunt because this is really important to be clear about. Let's say S is the stone, H is a hay bale, L is a ladder.

    If you do it this way...

    S L
    S L
    S L
    S H

    Then the game treats you as having landed on the BOTTOM ladder segment. Thus you sprain/break your leg.

    But if you do it this way...

    S L
    S L
    S
    S H

    Then you "fall" through that gap and land on the actual hay bale. No sprain/break.

  10. #25
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    Thanks for the playlist, much appreciated. I do realise that I need to spend as much time reading and watching as I do playing, perhaps more so at the beginning.

    I decided to load up my inventory with wood, iron, food and drink etc and then go looking for another site to make my own base rather than repair a house - as I had done.

    I chose an area with water close and just at the edge of a burnt area and a forest.

    The last area was +23m higher than sea level and I had dug down to -53m and found nothing. This time I had dug down until I came to stone and within a few metres I began to find coal, iron and lead. I do not know the quantities but the fact that I am already able to do this bodes well.

    The skills acquired by building my own base is also invaluable.

    I just wish that I could have had a larger inventory to move all my looted belongings, three chests full.


    Good tip about the bales of hay, I am getting good at crafting splints though - and breaking both legs at the same time - or at least it showed two broken bones on the screen.

  11. #26
    Reconstructionist mdf25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    And I have no issue at all with you playing the way you want to play. My concern is when someone asks for help improving and you suggest he plays your way.
    I just said "My recommendations[...]" and never said "If you play this way you will never die etc etc...". I will edit my post to make it clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    I don't have the aim of William Tell. You know what else I don't have? Hundreds of feathers day 1 :P Or even day 2 or 3.
    I tend to find tons of bird nests all over the place, I look in deserts as they are usually easier to spot out there. I usually get about 20-30 feathers for every 3 nests I find, so it doesn't take an awful lot of them before I have a good supply of feathers for arrows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    No, you don't. Kill the toilet with a Stone Axe and you'll get one Short Iron Pipe.
    Interesting, I will try that. I stand corrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    Like...what? Serious question -- what are you hoping to find that's worth the time that early in the game?
    Since zombies have a reduced food drop chance, the Shamway food shop can be pretty helpful. Sometimes you'll be able to find meat stew or blueberry pie, something you'd normally not be able to craft easily early in the game which can provide a good wellness boost. You might also find corn, potatoes, and blueberries to start your farm, sure you can find corn and blueberries around, but potatoes are found slightly more commonly in shamway boxes. Beer is also useful, which you can find in most stores. You can also collect the chips for a supply of brass for later, but since we are having traders in A15, collecting lots of them early could give you an advantage as you might be able to get useful items from him. If you get a pop-n-pills, you can also get plenty of medical supplies, learn to craft medicine kits, and you may get a beaker in one of the pill cases. Vitamins are also a welcome find early on, the more HP you have, the better IMO. Crack a book may teach you leather armour, useful to craft (and you can get leather from dismantling the sofas) and you may get the wrench or claw hammer which opens up a lot more stuff to you (springs for blunderbuss and workbench especially). There's plenty to find that can be useful early game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    And that's one of my major concerns with your massively, massively extended day lengths when it applies to people asking for help...you're turning a race against time into a carefree stroll through the zombie apocalypse.
    Again, never said anyone HAD to increase the day lengths. I only recommend it for new players since it gives them an opportunity to learn the game mechanics whilst not being too challenging - I have edited the post as stated above. But if they want to use regular day length, that's their choice. If you want to play on a race against time, go for it as that's your play style. I just don't understand why you felt the need to rip the post to pieces, especially over small things like grammar errors in the most extreme cases, when clearly the main issue you saw was the time constraint, which would have been sufficient to get your point across. My post has simply been 'what works for me' from my experience of the game and what I enjoy, things I feel might benefit new players. I apologise if it felt like I was trying to force a certain playstyle on new players, which was not my intention.

    There are other factors that determine difficulty such as the main difficulty setting, loot amount, and zombie spawn amounts. You can make it easier with day length then balance it with highest zombie spawns and harder difficulty/less loot amount, again the settings can make it your own. I still play on extended days but set zombie spawn to maximum (and make some minor XML tweaks), since I just find it more fun that way. But I have no problem surviving 50 minute day lengths on normal hours either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    It's better to build your own base from scratch for numerous reasons -- Construction Tool skill, smaller perimeter, no wasted space, massive XP for doing so, etc.
    If you've got a good design for day 7, would love to see it I usually build my own base, but have taken over POIs with much success as well and I find it quite fun to do. I think although you get more XP building your own base, at least with a POI it has most of the walls built for you, which you can still upgrade in some cases. You then have less spent on wall building and more to be spent on spikes. Might be a bigger perimeter, but might be easier to flank the zombies around it as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    Dunno about the exact details -- my main point is that you're only going to get 3-6 dogs on Day 5 per pack. Please don't scare the bejeebus out of new players by saying 15 might stroll their way :P
    I will have to check how many I had in my LP. But as far as I remember, it was definitely more than 6 (and for some reason there were more next day, may have been a bug). This was in A14.1 so for all I know this could have changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    Ultimately, if/when I have the resources, I aim for 1-2 layers of Wood Log Spikes right against the base walls and then multiple layers of the cheap spikes outside those. But getting enough Iron to do the Wood Log Spikes properly for week 1 on a normal time frame is a lot more difficult, especially when you're trying to get Reinforced Concrete walls up as well.
    When I've done with mine (post-day7) I have a similar setup, but without the smaller log spikes. I use the concrete pillars as walls to shoot through once I've got enough concrete to build with, and that usually renders the spikes enough without having to build loads of normal ones as well. Again, that's what works for me

    How tall are your reinforced concrete walls at day7, how much concrete are we talking? I guess you must spend a ton of time mining or digging gravel/destroyed stone, especially if your walls have a lip as well? Would be interesting to see how you get to that stage. Sure I know the construction skill is easy to level, but I don't think I've found a way to get concrete in enough quantity to make complete reinforced walls by day 7.

    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    Considering doing another playthrough with the goal of aiming it at complete beginners rather than assuming people know the basics. Thoughts?
    Would definitely watch if so, maybe I can learn a thing or two What's your YT channel?
    Last edited by mdf25; 06-17-2016 at 11:14 AM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    I just said "My recommendations[...]" and never said "If you play this way you will never die etc etc...". I will edit my post to make it clear.
    Hmm...let me rephrase things.

    He asked "Can I get some advice on how to play better?"

    You recommended "Make the game easier."

    Which doesn't exactly answer his question.

    Now if he had said "I'm really struggling, any good ways to make the game more forgiving while I'm learning?" then your answer would be a perfectly reasonable answer. Do you see what I mean?

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    I look in deserts as they are usually easier to spot out there.
    I would love to start in a desert every game. Unfortunately, I often struggle to find one in the first place, even later in the game. But yes, you can get feathers like crazy in the desert.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    Since zombies have a reduced food drop chance, the Shamway food shop can be pretty helpful.
    I've never had food issues due to hunting wild animals (which you need for hides for a Forge anyway). Usually wind up sitting on stacks of raw meat thinking "Will I ever even go through this?" And that's while I have tons of Cornbread available as well which is infinite Wellness food (meaning I'm not eating the Cornbread instead of the meat since the meat restores raw health).

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    Crack a book may teach you leather armour, useful to craft (and you can get leather from dismantling the sofas)
    It's actually a really bad idea to craft leather armor. Why? Because Iron Armor requires three leather per armor piece and you're going to run out of leather long before you run out of iron. Leather is your limiting factor, stockpile it until you get the Iron Armor recipes.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    and you may get the wrench or claw hammer which opens up a lot more stuff to you (springs for blunderbuss and workbench especially).
    How does the Claw Hammer help in this regard? Serious question.

    Also, Workbench isn't worth getting atm, at least not early on.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    There's plenty to find that can be useful early game.
    At the cost of how much *time?* It's a race against time to be ready for dogs on Day 5 and then the Horde on Day 7. The question isn't "Would finding a Wrench allow me to upgrade faster" but rather "Is spending 25 minutes searching for a Wrench to save 15 minutes of upgrade time worth it?" Time is a currency.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    If you want to play on a race against time, go for it as that's your play style.
    Think about the title of the game. 7 Days to Die. It even references time -- and a lot of people used to think it meant "You have seven days to get ready for the horde, good luck!" Technically speaking it's ACTUALLY referring to the infection...but that's still "You have seven days to find a cure, good luck!" The game is designed to progressively get harder over time with larger and worse Hordes while the player has to keep pace with the increasing difficulty.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    I just don't understand why you felt the need to rip the post to pieces, especially over small things like grammar errors in the most extreme cases
    I decided not to harp on this earlier when you mentioned it...but I seriously don't understand how you think that was a grammar error. Looking at your edited post you literally added two new words to explain your meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    You can make it easier with day length then balance it with highest zombie spawns and harder difficulty/less loot amount, again the settings can make it your own.
    Sure. But...the only thing you mentioned to him was day length.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    If you've got a good design for day 7, would love to see it
    Reinforced Concrete base with Iron Bar lip by 10 AM on Day 5: https://youtu.be/VcBvVHbvoOQ?list=PL...qLxmMw08&t=471

    4x6 interior with room for 3 Forges, a Campfire, 8 Storage Crates, and room to move around. Plus basements and could add upper levels obviously.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    I think although you get more XP building your own base, at least with a POI it has most of the walls built for you, which you can still upgrade in some cases.
    The problem is getting to 40 Construction Tools ASAP for Steel unlock.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    How tall are your reinforced concrete walls at day7, how much concrete are we talking?
    Five high, 8x6 dimensions total. So 48 blocks on the ground floor, then each wall layer is another 8 + 8 + 4 + 4 = 24 blocks, meaning 144 blocks total. Which translates into 1,440 Concrete Mix if using Rebar Frames or 2,880 Concrete Mix if upgrading from Cobblestone/Iron/etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    Would definitely watch if so, maybe I can learn a thing or two What's your YT channel?
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCui...8u5jsVgS3IT3cA

  13. #28
    Reconstructionist mdf25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    Hmm...let me rephrase things.

    He asked "Can I get some advice on how to play better?"

    You recommended "Make the game easier."

    Which doesn't exactly answer his question.

    Now if he had said "I'm really struggling, any good ways to make the game more forgiving while I'm learning?" then your answer would be a perfectly reasonable answer. Do you see what I mean?
    I see your point. Again, not sure why you feel the need to be so aggressive about it and nitpick, as it could have been useful even though there were some inconsistencies (which I did try to correct, to no avail, and clearly admitted to you that I have been incorrect on some things). Anyhow, I've removed the post so I'm not giving off irrelevant information, as it kinda sucks getting flamed when all I tried to do was help - makes me wonder why I even bothered, and i guess makes me reluctant to post at all. I came to help, not debate and have everything I say ripped apart.

    Anyhow, moving on...

    Your base design looks good, so to get 1440/2880 concrete you need a mix of 3:1 stone:sand. so that seems like quite a lot of time invested in mining, but using destroyed stone is probably one of the best ways to get to that stage, or gravel from a road. But is there a need to make the interior floor out of concrete? Probably better to save your concrete for those interior blocks and use the concrete mix for repair in the horde night? Still a good design though, but just thinking if you're on a race against time that's a little bit less.

    Would you even recommend cobble? I've used it but it seems like it takes way too long, sure gathering stones and clay is a bit easier than iron, but the 1200HP on cobblestone isn't as good as on a fully upgraded scrap frame. Surely you'd go to wood and then swap it out for the rebar to save concrete?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    I see your point. Again, not sure why you feel the need to be so aggressive about it and nitpick
    Do me a favor -- read everything I write in a matter-of-fact tone. Picture me as an engineer whose sole concern is making sure the facts are correct because he doesn't want people looking for information to get misleading/outdated advice.

    My goal is not to tear you down or something -- there's no aggression involved. It's to make sure people looking for help get accurate information.

    Anyhow, moving on...

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    so that seems like quite a lot of time invested in mining
    Need to level up that Mining Tools skill for XP anyway. Need to find mineral veins for Nitrate/Coal in order to make Gunpower for Gunsmithing for XP anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    But is there a need to make the interior floor out of concrete?
    Not really, I just had a bunch lying around and thought "Eh, why not?" Strictly speaking it's useful if the zombies manage to break through the outer wall but unless that happens...

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    Probably better to save your concrete for those interior blocks and use the concrete mix for repair in the horde night?
    If I was remotely close to running out of Concrete Mix, yes, I would have done that. That's not sarcasm or something either -- if I legitimately had a shortage of Concrete Mix due to time I'd have acted differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by mdf25 View Post
    Would you even recommend cobble? I've used it but it seems like it takes way too long, sure gathering stones and clay is a bit easier than iron, but the 1200HP on cobblestone isn't as good as on a fully upgraded scrap frame. Surely you'd go to wood and then swap it out for the rebar to save concrete?
    NITPICK TIME! 1500 HP on Cobble. But yes, it's less than a Scrap Frame.

    Funny story: in that video, I did use Wood then swapped it for Rebar. However, it felt incredibly awkward and I had way more Concrete Mix than I expected which meant I could have easily just upgraded "twice" with Concrete Mix. But...you can't upgrade Wood to Concrete, have to go through Iron first which is an actual problem.

    So, if I were to redo it, I think I'd make Cobblestone and then just double upgrade to Reinforced Concrete. Cobblestone has two other big advantages:

    1, it's three upgrades per block rather than two. More Construction Tool XP without having to do silly stuff to earn it.

    2, it's solid enough to not have any issues prior to Horde night (and, frankly, is perfectly fine for the first Horde if necessary).

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balkoth View Post
    And I have no issue at all with you playing the way you want to play. My concern is when someone asks for help improving and you suggest he plays your way.
    ...
    You're doing it wrong. And I'm only so blunt because this...
    LOL, yeah, read in a matter-of-fact tone ...

    Since you seemed on some kind of mission to argue with people trying to help fellow players, I guess you thought you would spread your bad temper around, but I personally don't "do it wrong" and keep that last ladder segment there either.

    I recommended the hay bales to him, considered talking to him about the ladders but dismissed it as something he's probably picked up on his own. Just as I credited him with enough intelligence to place the hay bale as a flooring and not just stack it against the ladder. Just as mdf25 credited readers to take his "advice" and weigh it for themselves.

    Broken legs just happen sometimes when players are speeding up and down ladders and slip off sideways or decide to do quick jumps down and err sideways a bit. Crunch.

    I'm sure your perfect gameplay is the exception, but I know i have plenty of company with the occasional sprains and breaks, and extra hay isn't going to ruin anyone's fun.

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