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Thread: DEDI Server - Physics Often Breaks Causing Base and Crop Collapse - Requires Restart

  1. #1
    Tracker mythan's Avatar
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    Exclamation DEDI Server - Physics Often Breaks Causing Base and Crop Collapse - Requires Restart

    We're experiencing an issue on our server (day 473) and it's become more prevalent. It seems to relate to a physics issue in A15 which requires the server to be restarted to resolve it. It's causing us and our players some serious headaches (2nd restart in 3 hours) because the blocks that are placed WHILE the physics bug is active, will remain broken, even after a restart. It's like the bad physics is baked into the blocks. New blocks that are placed after the restart will work fine as they should.

    The symptoms (while bug is active):

    Blocks don't collapse like they should. Place one wood frame on top of another, remove the bottom block and the top will remain floating.

    The symptoms (after a server restart):

    The blocks that were floating before will collapse when you walk close to them. So, in some cases hours will go by before we realize there is a physics issue. When those players come back after a restart, they will helplessly watch their base collapse. Even blocks that are well supported will still collapse into itself. Plants that were placed during the physics bug will explode in dominoes style.

    Server Details:

    * Vanilla with no modifications to XML's (appears in vanilla list)
    * Alloc's Fixes (rev. 293 (10_13_17) (2016-09-25)) & Coppi's Mod (Version 2.7)

    Where to from here:

    We don't know how to reproduce the issue. We've got admins trying their best to check the physics often and force a restart as soon as they realize it's broken to minimize base collapses. Some players collapse large sections of dirt in their underground mines, can that bring it on?

    Does anyone have suggestions on how to resolve the issue without a restart?

    If there is any more detail I can provide to help investigate the issue, don't hesitate to ask.
    Last edited by mythan; 01-09-2017 at 11:19 PM.

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    Tracker mythan's Avatar
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    After hours of trying different combinations, I could get the issue to manifest (temporarily). Below are the steps to reproduce it:

    1. Find an area with some zombies wandering around (or spawn a horde).
    2. Go underground and undermine a bunch of chunks.. keep on going and wait for the collapse to start. Make it big enough so it goes for minutes.
    3. While that is happening, build a wood frame tower and remove the bottom block.. it'll stay floating as the server is working through the queue of collapsing blocks. Now run Forrest run out of there (or teleport away to the other corner of the world)... place some blocks and you'll see they won't collapse either because the zombies are keeping the collapsing chunks loaded. Eventually, however, your "off site" wood frame tower will collapse as the one with the zombies finish (if you're in proximity of your "off site" tower).


    Here are the factors that may escalate this issue:


    • Zombies do not unload properly in inactive chunks. If we don't restart our server within 24 hours, there are so many left behind zombies all over the map (seen on Alloc's map) that they spawn less and less as the max zombie spawn count is reached.
    • We run a fairly busy server, most evenings sitting on 28-35 players (capped at 40). Players are spread all over the world and our "7DaysToDieServer.exe" uses between 12-15gb of RAM as we approach the 18th hour (restart at 24h).
    • Some players do collapse huge areas intentionally for their base builds. Most of the time the blocks spanning across several chunks will stay floating and they have to chip away at it until the collapse starts.
    • A collapse can be stopped by teleporting away or running far enough and there are no zombies/players close to the chunks. The blocks may start collapsing again when the players come in proximity or when they hit the frozen blocks.
    • If one person causes a collapse, the building integrity for all players around the map is jeopardised while the collapse is occurring. If the builders log out or leave their site, their blocks will be frozen in the air and won't collapse..UNTIL the builder comes back a day later, and moves close to the blocks. It's a big WTF moment for the builder as their structure may be well supported but still collapse.


    Summary:

    I know it sounds like we've continuously got players collapsing big sections of the world. We don't. It's just that I managed to reproduce the issue using this method and it seems the most likely cause. I do believe there is process that gets "stuck" somewhere and the server thinks a collapse is still happening when there isn't. It causes physics to stop/break map wide and it's only once we restart the server that new blocks will have proper integrity applied and old blocks are "activated" and collapse when a player get in proximity.

    We've left the physics issue for hours and it didn't come right (where as my test had a different outcome in that it eventually got through the collapse queue and collapsed the floating towers I was standing next to).
    Last edited by mythan; 10-24-2016 at 03:54 AM.

  3. #3
    Tracker mythan's Avatar
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    The server was updated to the versions below, but the issue is still occurring once or every couple of weeks. It seems much better now that we've asked our players to stop collapsing large areas:

    Server Details:

    * Vanilla with no modifications to XML's (appears in vanilla list)
    * Alloc's Fixes rev. 297 (11_13_18) (2016-10-26) & Coppi's Mod (Version 3.0)

  4. #4
    Tracker mythan's Avatar
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    Issue is still happening on:

    * A15.1
    * Alloc's Fixes rev. 301 (12_14_19) (2017-01-03) & Coppi's Mod (Version 3.0)

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    Just to confirm this is happening on other servers, Ive had this bug hit me on two separate servers. Quitting 7DTD until A16 and this is hopefully fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mythan View Post
    We're experiencing an issue on our server (day 473) and it's become more prevalent. It seems to relate to a physics issue in A15 which requires the server to be restarted to resolve it. It's causing us and our players some serious headaches (2nd restart in 3 hours) because the blocks that are placed WHILE the physics bug is active, will remain broken, even after a restart. It's like the bad physics is baked into the blocks. New blocks that are placed after the restart will work fine as they should.

    The symptoms (while bug is active):

    Blocks don't collapse like they should. Place one wood frame on top of another, remove the bottom block and the top will remain floating.

    The symptoms (after a server restart):

    The blocks that were floating before will collapse when you walk close to them. So, in some cases hours will go by before we realize there is a physics issue. When those players come back after a restart, they will helplessly watch their base collapse. Even blocks that are well supported will still collapse into itself. Plants that were placed during the physics bug will explode in dominoes style.

    Server Details:

    * Vanilla with no modifications to XML's (appears in vanilla list)
    * Alloc's Fixes (rev. 293 (10_13_17) (2016-09-25)) & Coppi's Mod (Version 2.7)

    Where to from here:

    We don't know how to reproduce the issue. We've got admins trying their best to check the physics often and force a restart as soon as they realize it's broken to minimize base collapses. Some players collapse large sections of dirt in their underground mines, can that bring it on?

    Does anyone have suggestions on how to resolve the issue without a restart?

    If there is any more detail I can provide to help investigate the issue, don't hesitate to ask.
    This happends on all servers since the update and its anoying as .... it happens alot due to players using tnt or any toher thing that exsplodes, some servers have rules about it now.. restricting alot of things to prevent it from happening issuing bans if they do

    So far what makes the game create this bug, minibikes, exsplosives, cave ins bigger then 8x8,

    Its sad i do play on pvp server, but im a builder at heart, and at the current state im lucky if i can build 30 mins a day before hell breacks loose,

    and it also messes up automatic restarts, once this bug happends the server wont restart, but have to force restart, dunno how thats related

  7. #7
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    Can confirm we have this issue on our server. Most notable is that structural integrity does not work. You can stack on rebar frame on top of another but standing on the top one causes it to break. You cannot build horizontally more than one block. Even if its supported directly beneath, walking on it will collapse it. We've banned use of explosives but we also concur that large collapsing areas will also cause this problem. Whats worse is that any structure that is built while physics is broken will be permanently at risk of glitching once physics is restored. Many people have really had the game ruined for them because of this bug.
    Last edited by dex314; 01-11-2017 at 05:39 PM.

  8. #8
    Colony Founder StompyNZ's Avatar
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    After playing with a prefab inserter command recently I think the blocks are losing or failing to have the stability initialised. When that happens it means they effectively have no SI and so any attached blocks will fall and standing on them will break them.

    This could potentially happen when too many SI calcs are required in a short time period and it overwhlems the process then it stops working.

  9. #9
    Tracker mythan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StompyNZ View Post
    After playing with a prefab inserter command recently I think the blocks are losing or failing to have the stability initialised. When that happens it means they effectively have no SI and so any attached blocks will fall and standing on them will break them.

    This could potentially happen when too many SI calcs are required in a short time period and it overwhlems the process then it stops working.
    StompyNZ, buddy old pal *wink* You're doing some awesome stuff with your Bad Company API mod, aren't you? Any chance...ya know, you could throw in a little fix for this? :P

    Something to clear/refresh the process/queue?

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    I've experienced this as well. Sadly, I do not know how to reproduce it. It was happening sporadically on A15.2b7 every day for several days, and then hasn't happened since.

    A few key things while it is happening however.

    Newly placed blocks have next to no SI value. If you make any kind of overhang, like say an upside down L built from bedrock, then walk on the overhang, that block will break and collapse as soon as you walk on it. Normally, this would not happen.

    As others have noted, if you don't walk on blocks, they will float. In fact, the easiest way to check if physics are broken is to stack two blocks and remove the bottom one. If the top one floats, don't do any building.

    After a server restart to fix the physics, sometimes blocks that were placed while physics were broken will still be glitched. You won't know this until you force them to update in someway. I have screenshots of this in action.

    http://prntscr.com/e8nhdx

    In this case, all I did was place a rebar frame to try to continue building. This forced the blocks to update, likely checking their SI. My guess is that all these concrete blocks has a bugged SI, forcing this cascade implosion. You can't see it in that picture, but even the floor layer I was standing on (At elevation -56 with only solid steel beneath it) imploded as well. It was like watching a ripple in water, rather surreal.

    Here's a screenshot of it happening on another wall.

    http://prntscr.com/e8nexg

    Well Pimps. I wish I had more info to give you. Would it be possible to give server owners some sort of tool to keep an eye on SI and get you guys more details?

  11. #11
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    Also confirming that this occurs. Definitely seems to be related to world uptime. OP indicated this happening on D473, but on the heavily populated server I was on, it didn't start happening until around Day 1,000. Restarting the server does not appear to make any difference, as the issue persists until the entire world is wiped and reset.

    - When undermined (I.E. no direct connection to bedrock) structures do not collapse and float in the air
    - Conversely, structurally sound constructions will collapse for no reason (for example, an 8 block wood frame pole my just suddenly break down)
    - Related to the 2nd point, this collapse seems to be randomly based on a block. For example, building an 8 block noob pole may suddenly collapse for no reason, but moving 1 block in any direction, it will build up with no problems.

  12. #12
    Tracker mythan's Avatar
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    I am sad to report this issue is still happening in A16 Experimental.

    New installation of a dedicated server and have twice today had to restart the server because physics stopped working and blocks would hover in the air until a restart.

    TFP, please let me know what else you require to investigate this issue further.

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