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Thread: "The PvP Update"

  1. #226
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    how viable is it to simply remove skills from pvp servers?

    The old alpha 12 truly random loot, no "weapon" or "armor" skills.
    This means that all weapons will be able to be levelled to 600, and all armor, BUT finding blue and purple weapons (including guns) is perfectly likely to happen as well. There will still be a "skill" curve, and established players will be stronger, but not nearly as bad as a new player with a QL 130 pistol or bow vs. a player with 100 armor skill, 600 iron armor, and purple automatic weapons with 100 skill...heck...remove the quality difference and skill 0 vs. skill 100 makes the game unplayable in pvp....you'll never win...EVER. Instead, you'll have to grind those skills up for ages on a server where that godlike killer will gladly kill you any chance he gets.

    Finite worlds. Log in to a RG pvp server and run 10 km NNW and the odds you'll ever run into any player is miniscule. If you limit the world size to something that FORCES players together, you'll get a much more intense game, and pvp will actually HAPPEN. This comes with the flip side of a small world having finite loot locations, and the top player on the server is well served to destroy bookcases, safes, gunstore crates, etc after he's looted them....this will also eventually restrict new players to the realm of "can't compete" - block protected POIs...some of them...might be necessary...it encourages pvp at those areas and allows players access to loot to feel competitive. Along with that, you'd need loot that respawns in containers regardless of the last time the container was checked or walked near...since those (bookstores, shotgun messiahs, etc.) would be high traffic areas.

    Invincible bases offline would need serious considerations, especially if bases took a while to break in. If i was going to lose my base, i might just log out. Even if you plan for that and give a 5-10 minute grace period where the base is still hittable, an opponent might not actually be able to sufficiently break in within that time. Heck, some of these hardcore pvpers probably have bases that take an hour or more to break into.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limdood View Post
    how viable is it to simply remove skills from pvp servers?
    This means that all weapons will be able to be levelled to 600, and all armor, BUT finding blue and purple weapons (including guns) is perfectly likely to happen as well. There will still be a "skill" curve, and established players will be stronger, but not nearly as bad as a new player with a QL 130 pistol or bow vs. a player with 100 armor skill, 600 iron armor, and purple automatic weapons with 100 skill...heck...remove the quality difference and skill 0 vs. skill 100 makes the game unplayable in pvp....you'll never win...EVER. Instead, you'll have to grind those skills up for ages on a server where that godlike killer will gladly kill you any chance he gets.
    Yellow hunting rifle with 5 only points in "Rifles" skill one shot me in full 500-600 military armor with 120HP. Skills and quality is nothing for rifles type.

  3. #228
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    I guess I should chime in here at some point.

    PVP is an interesting beast. The reasons for a player enjoying PVP are broader than PVE players. They are adding an entirely new enemy to their strategies and new dynamics for failure.

    With that in mind, PVP should be nothing like PVE. The current stats, boosts, perks, health on zombies, they are all oriented towards the PVE end of the game.

    I am a little surprised the perks and skill are done as they are in general. I would like to see a skill go to 100 such as pistols but at a much slower rate and only from use. You should not be able to put points into certain skills, you have to achieve them. Most skills would be better if discovered through use or reading schematics and books. Your character should learn the perk or skill, not buy it with points. After traveling certain distances, you get a small reduction in the chance to break legs from fall damage. Every 1000km it reduces chances by 1% up to 15%.

    The entire perk/skill system needs to be looked at. It is not that PVP needs its own mode, it is that the PVE is a biased system not made for anything BUT PVE.

    Back to the example of pistol skill. Have a pistol be a generic pistol, shots do 12-15 damage or whatever you find appropriate but someone with a higher skill in pistols gets reduced reload time or better accuracy, but slight. Up to 15% difference. The same pistol used by another player with lower pistol skill still does the base damage but none of the bonus as the skills of handling pistols have not improved yet. Adding direct damage is the issue. You have a pistol do 15 damage and a sniper rifle does over 70. Then if you take into account the head shot bonus, it gets a little absurd. Even if both players were level 1, the range in damage of the high end sniper vs low end pistol is staggering. This is where you can see it was setup for PVE but even then the range is far too big.

    Another example of a skill/perk with a different system is this. Healing from med kits should be defined by your medicine skill up to 100. The higher your skill, the more it heals. The same kit used by a player not leveled up would only heal a base amount of 25. Add a cooking skill that allows you to craft the base item but with stat boosts based on a skill out of 100. If someone else grabbed that food after being cooked, it would still have that boost when used.

    Base items could also be crated with better base stats depending on the crafting level but it should be small. A top level player vs a low level should only see a spread of 20-30% at max between effectiveness of the same actions.

    You get the reward of having a better character and working towards something but not over powering other players to the point they can not do anything to you. It keeps everyone feeling a very real danger.

    With that in mind, the numbers used can not just be out of thin air. Working on some balances on paper are necessary. Take into consideration materials used in recipes and the time to acquire some mats. I would like to see the number of completed guns go down and only be found in a gun safe. Maybe a pistol in a toilet but lower chances please. Parts are more interesting as you have to collect them and assemble. It leaves the possibility of finding a low end part and high end part to get a mish mash in between BUT this comes in to the entire balance problem. Look at the range of durability or damage on some items currently and compare them across the board.

    Upon comparison you will see there is no base ground that everything works around. Blocks that break down in tiers are insanely high in hit points when you work out the totals. This requires tools to have excessively large values and that inflates the difference between high and low end as you are using modifiers that are also too high on the perks.

    Many players work out the best set of skills and fastest route to go so as to get ahead of others and hopefully out pace them. This is a good strategy but as stated, it inflates as it goes further. If a high end player was 30% stronger in their base abilities, a low level player has a chance. What you need is a configurable option to what that gap range is. Is the low end to high end 30% or 70% better. When you have that base line for the base game, it can be applied to all items and skills as a whole which would allow skills to go through usage in a fluid manner versus unlocking them with points. A more interesting path would be to force players to choose between specific skills at certain stages.

    Level 50 gives you the option of unlocking two new skills. Whatever you want and they are all out of 100 and defined by usage, not pts put into them. you can still have some require others just as it is but getting rid of a set amount of points and instead rewarding an amount of skills or perks makes more sense to me for PVP, but really PVE as well.

  4. #229
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    I would like to see the EAC system implement silent screenshots of the players screens and then sent to the server hosts. EAC has this capacity so it would be a great step into long term cheat prevention. With so many players still cheating and finding exploits, it can be a great tool for PVP when trying to catch someone.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsessive Compulsive View Post
    I would like to see the EAC system implement silent screenshots of the players screens and then sent to the server hosts. EAC has this capacity so it would be a great step into long term cheat prevention. With so many players still cheating and finding exploits, it can be a great tool for PVP when trying to catch someone.
    yes finding ure base gone in 1 out is just bad the EAC must be upgraded

  6. #231
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    After 1000 hours in game playing on a PVP server I have to say one of my biggest pains is raiding.

    With the current raiding system the game forces you to use primarily augers to break into another players base. The problem with this is that the LCB introduces potentially massive amounts of defence to the player bases. A well designed base can take hours to raid. So far I've spent 8 hours in alpha 16 raiding a single base. This is just silly and boring as hell to sit in front of concrete / steel blocks for hours simply holding your left mouse button. Why not reduce the damage multiplier you say? Because the argument on the other side is that we have to give the base owner a chance which i totally agree on.

    Why not introduce additional methods for raiding?

    - Explosive charges
    What about if we had explosive charges that we place and detonate? They could deal huge amounts of block damage to player made blocks. They could be craftable and locked behind perks and cost a lot of resources to build. Maybe 10-15 minutes in the work bench. Maybe some of the items needed are rare and loot only. We could have tiered charges - wood, metal and concrete / steel charges.

    - Raiding rocket ammunition
    Name says it all - rockets that deal a lot of block damage to player made blocks. They could also take ages to craft and maybe are super rare and expensive at traders behind secret stash 3.

    Rather than spending ages staring at concrete blocks with the auger, if we could at least go and enjoy the game instead searching for raiding materials it would make it far less boring.

    Also give admins the ability to control the LCB vertical effects as well as horizontal.

  7. #232
    Zombie Hunter Xamllew's Avatar
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    Oh yeah PVP, this is going to really reel in all those ARK/Rust/Survarium/PUBG/Miscreated/H1Z1/DayZ/Hurtworld/The Culling players who are just looking for a good PVP survival game because those are rare.
    Last edited by Xamllew; 1 Week Ago at 09:06 PM.

  8. #233
    Survivor ForWar01's Avatar
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    They shouldnt remove almost anything they just need to tweak some things out , and add a bit more of other things and will be perfect. nobody wants another pvp game like the ones there are allready there. we want the same feel leveling grinding etc but with pvp

  9. #234
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caatalyst View Post
    After 1000 hours in game playing on a PVP server I have to say one of my biggest pains is raiding.

    With the current raiding system the game forces you to use primarily augers to break into another players base. The problem with this is that the LCB introduces potentially massive amounts of defence to the player bases. A well designed base can take hours to raid. So far I've spent 8 hours in alpha 16 raiding a single base. This is just silly and boring as hell to sit in front of concrete / steel blocks for hours simply holding your left mouse button. Why not reduce the damage multiplier you say? Because the argument on the other side is that we have to give the base owner a chance which i totally agree on.

    Why not introduce additional methods for raiding?

    - Explosive charges
    What about if we had explosive charges that we place and detonate? They could deal huge amounts of block damage to player made blocks. They could be craftable and locked behind perks and cost a lot of resources to build. Maybe 10-15 minutes in the work bench. Maybe some of the items needed are rare and loot only. We could have tiered charges - wood, metal and concrete / steel charges.

    - Raiding rocket ammunition
    Name says it all - rockets that deal a lot of block damage to player made blocks. They could also take ages to craft and maybe are super rare and expensive at traders behind secret stash 3.

    Rather than spending ages staring at concrete blocks with the auger, if we could at least go and enjoy the game instead searching for raiding materials it would make it far less boring.

    Also give admins the ability to control the LCB vertical effects as well as horizontal.
    Why not just disable LCBs on the server? Sounds like that is what is making it boring.

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Why not just disable LCBs on the server? Sounds like that is what is making it boring.
    I think the point he is making is if you just disable LCBs it is way too easy to raid, so you need something that lets raiding still be difficult but take less time.

  11. #236
    Community Moderator Crater Creator's Avatar
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    Forgive me for not reading the whole thread, but I wanted to comment on something OnlyMeiya brought up in another thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyMeiya View Post
    Did a lot of testing last night and it seems that the sniper has become one of the most under-performing gun now to the point that high end pvp is now completely pointless with even a 600 sniper with max skills.

    Please consider returning it to its rightful places because this eliminates so much strategy from pvp in the end game I don't want every encounter to now have to be forced to be up close. many players are extremely cunning with sniping when you mix it with a world that is manipulated by the player to suit the snipers needs.


    Player was geared everything 600 BIS with max cloth/armor skill at 100.

    I was using 600 sniper with max BTLD and 100 rifle skills.

    From headshots only doing 50 damage to several body shots (entire clips) not getting top end players even below 50% hp the sniper has definitely been showing signs that it is under performing.

    Shotgun up close with shells deals impressive damage again.

    Slugs nearly kill in 1-2 shots, which is great!

    Even magnum now out-performs the sniper!

    When the shotgun was over-nerfed we had another option of the AK, which was amazing at it really, right now we currently have no long range fall back option.

    The sniper is one of the rarer types of guns, it doesn't need to be sitting at the bottom of the chain.

    Or give us an even rarer gun .50 cal option or something. I wouldn't mind that, with anti armor piercing rounds, sniper should be the most feared gun to be against in the hands of the right players, not a toy that is mocked for how little the damage its doing.
    TL;DR: with the sniper rifle nerfed, PvP players don't have a good option for a long-range weapon.

    Since PvP isn't my thing in this game (definitely in other games, though), I'm taking this assessment at face value. One idea raised, which I think is a good one, was that the armor penetration of weapons could scale with your skill level, which wouldn't affect combat with zombies and animals.

    But to my mind, the ideal vehicle for a long-range PvP-tuned weapon is the hunting rifle. In my experience, the hunting rifle is just a weapon you use until you have a sniper rifle. But the two could be more useful in different situations.

    The hunting rifle's entity damage with maximum skills could be raised very high without affecting PvE very much. It has a long delay between shots, there are a lot more zombies than other players in a given encounter, and most zombies don't take a lot of damage relative to a high-level armored player based on OnlyMeiya's reporting.

    These three stats combined mean a hunting rifle with high damage is literally overkill in most PvE situations. If the sniper rifle were given similarly high damage, though, it would be too superior overall thanks to its 5-round clip.

    Now we currently have some real bullet sponge zombies, like irradiated cops, which could be easier kills with a souped-up hunting rifle. But that may not be a bad thing, since again the hunting rifle has its limitations when faced with a large number of targets at once.

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