View Poll Results: Alpha 17 Release Date: Not in January

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Thread: Developer Diary: Alpha 17!!!

  1. #8161
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    Question AI & Difficulty

    I've not read every single post, so apologies if I've missed someone mentioning these topics, but

    - Any indication that there will be AI improvements in A17, so zombies don't spin in circles or turn and attack the wall on the opposite side of the room

    - Any changes that will let us make it harder / blood moons last longer, I've increased the maxspawn in xml on the blood moon to 20,000 but it seems to have an upper limit around a thousand or so, which by day 21 we can kill within an hour or two of game time (playing on hardest setting with always run on and base stage level +4). Or does anyone have any additional tips for increasing difficulty beyond arbitrary restrictions on game play ( we already only allow ourselves to take over existing structures, above ground all the time)

    Thanks,

  2. #8162
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieHorde View Post
    So, reading all the updated (debatable) improvements on post 1, it's not mentioning AI improvements anywhere. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving most of what I'm seeing, however considering AI was touted as THE reason to upgrade to A17, is it still happening? Or just like most politicians primary promises, has it been dumped?
    Zombies aren't supposed to be smart.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Siveria View Post
    I hope food spoilage never happens to be honest. It'd ruin the game for me. If it does happen I hope there is an option in modded options to turn it off. Just like weather survival needs to be in there as a on/off thing because to me it adds nothing to the game other than pointless inventory tetris.
    To each his own. We all play differently. Some play this game to kill zombies, other play it as an adult version of Minecraft.

  3. #8163
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    Quote Originally Posted by betam4x View Post
    Zombies aren't supposed to be smart.

    - - - Updated - - -
    Ooh I wouldn't expect complex tactics, just pure blood lust see food chase food... not see food spin in circle until something hits them, then attack opposite wall even as their food is repeatedly sinking an axe into their back.

  4. #8164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vollmer View Post
    I've not read every single post, so apologies if I've missed someone mentioning these topics, but

    - Any indication that there will be AI improvements in A17, so zombies don't spin in circles or turn and attack the wall on the opposite side of the room

    - Any changes that will let us make it harder / blood moons last longer, I've increased the maxspawn in xml on the blood moon to 20,000 but it seems to have an upper limit around a thousand or so, which by day 21 we can kill within an hour or two of game time (playing on hardest setting with always run on and base stage level +4). Or does anyone have any additional tips for increasing difficulty beyond arbitrary restrictions on game play ( we already only allow ourselves to take over existing structures, above ground all the time)

    Thanks,
    Not a fix all but....

    Change zombiestevecrawler to a different walk type... so they dont slowly crawl in...it helps more zeds come quicker

    increase all fat cop explosion entity damage and range....

    remove the basic zombie horde night group as the 4th part of the night and add in gamestaged...

    Oh and replace a weak zombie like cheerleader in the final gamestage with zombieanimalbear
    Last edited by SnowDog1942; 1 Week Ago at 03:54 PM.

  5. #8165
    Colony Founder Tin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by betam4x View Post
    Zombies aren't supposed to be smart.
    Well how dumb do you want them? So dumb they can't get from point A to point B in open terrain without spinning in a circle on some invisible object while having you in their sight? Do you want them so dumb they can't even try to break through walls or doors or windows to get at a food source? How dumb are you (and others) talking?

    Me personally, I want them to be, at the very least, as smart as dogs or cats when trying to get food. Climb stairs, Fences, Trees, Ladders, being able to walk around objects out in the open without getting stuck and just running in circles just because. Attempt to bust down objects in their way when prey is close at hand. lol even a Mouse or an Ant can transverse a maze to get to a food source..

    I mean come on.. They are at the least smart enough in just about every movie/book to recognize other zeds from a live human and transverse distances in a decent enough manner and go around objects in their path to get at us.

  6. #8166
    QA Tester unholyjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieHorde View Post
    True regarding the Unity port.

    In regards to zombie intelligence, I suppose there are a few things that need to happen, depending on the zombie lore. If zombies are completely braindead and just animated flesh with one desire = eat human flesh, then at the very least, the need to be able to pile up (swam each other) to get you if you are on a ledge directly above them or dig in droves to your underground base.

    However, if we consider them somewhat like animals with a basic instinct and a slight version of a brain (at least a brain-step), then even the dumbest animals can find alternative routes around obstacles or change their body shape (bend or crawl) to get under or over a block. With a human just infected, maybe he/she still has some engineering smarts about him/her and can get the general sensible use of basic tools (club) or that if I fell this tree, that perch will fall.

    But it's not just about zombie lore, but mainly about the entertainment of the game.
    i would like to see ledge fishing countered with true dangerous vultures that (NO dont pick up players) but will dig claws into a player and higher chance for infection and thus when flying in swooping action would also knock down a player. imagine getting knocked off of your safety ledge by a stinking bird

    dont get that wrong i am not against players on a ledge as its one of my tactics.. but right now the only hazard we have is vultures (depending on location vultures just arent in every biome and should have chance to be in any) and spitters (i hate spitters, we were brought up to not spit)

  7. #8167
    Colony Founder Aldranon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin View Post
    Me personally, I want them to be, at the very least, as smart as dogs or cats when trying to get food.
    I had to smile at this, you thought it was trivial but M.I.T. finally did this with their open-source AI project. Its about as smart as a cat and dog. Cats are smarter but dogs socialize better, so you want both for a good AI. Which is what they are working on.

    So if someone (you?) wants to look into their open source (if it still is open) have at it!
    Last edited by Aldranon; 1 Week Ago at 04:21 PM.

  8. #8168
    Colony Founder Tin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldranon View Post
    I had to smile at this, you thought it was trivial but M.I.T. finally did this with their open-source AI project. Cats are smarter but dogs socialize better, so you want both for a good AI. Which is what they are working on.

    So if someone (you?) wants to look into their open source (if it still is open) have at it!
    Ohh No No.. I don't think it's trivial at all. They will find a way if presented an opportunity to get what they want. Instinct or Intelligence which ever you want to call it.

  9. #8169
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin View Post
    Well how dumb do you want them? So dumb they can't get from point A to point B in open terrain without spinning in a circle on some invisible object while having you in their sight? Do you want them so dumb they can't even try to break through walls or doors or windows to get at a food source? How dumb are you (and others) talking?

    Me personally, I want them to be, at the very least, as smart as dogs or cats when trying to get food. Climb stairs, Fences, Trees, Ladders, being able to walk around objects out in the open without getting stuck and just running in circles just because. Attempt to bust down objects in their way when prey is close at hand. lol even a Mouse or an Ant can transverse a maze to get to a food source..

    I mean come on.. They are at the least smart enough in just about every movie/book to recognize other zeds from a live human and transverse distances in a decent enough manner and go around objects in their path to get at us.
    +1

    I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace...

  10. #8170
    Colony Founder Ouch Quit It's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    +1

    I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace...
    Wait...are you saying that the spinning thing and not paying attention to you aren't the finished product for zombie AI...Wow this game is gonna be good!!

    Coughs * VIDEO * Coughs

  11. #8171
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    Quote Originally Posted by beerfly View Post
    AI is not only for the zeds.
    Player AI is still in testing.

  12. #8172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death2gnomes View Post
    Player AI is still in testing.
    Indeed. Its gonna take forever

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch Quit It View Post
    Wait...are you saying that the spinning thing and not paying attention to you aren't the finished product for zombie AI...Wow this game is gonna be good!!

    Coughs * VIDEO * Coughs
    Spinning is a feature. I accept it like that and then smash them.

  13. #8173
    Colony Founder Aldranon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    +1

    I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace...
    There are too many ways to spoof the system right now, digging underground is only one of many ways. I'm sure you know this.

    The real question is what is 7D2D?
    -Turret defense? Yes, if you build a vanilla above ground fort with turrets and spam up some ammo for them. Otherwise, making a gimmicky above ground fort is as safe as being at bedrock.

    -PvP? No, not close yet.

    -Survival? Yes and this one only requires the player to think a little.

    The current Turret Defense mode and Survival game play styles in 7D2D don't really blend well.

  14. #8174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    +1

    I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace...
    Bigger problem is that zombies are able to spawn in players base via screaming screamer zombie. There should be limited NO spawn zone to claim block's line.
    Last edited by Flat0ut; 1 Week Ago at 05:25 PM.

  15. #8175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death2gnomes View Post
    Player AI is still in testing.
    Results are in on that one. Either it's brain dead or it completely disregards all the rules.

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