View Poll Results: Alpha 17

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Thread: Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

  1. #7411
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    The thing is that this game is part tower defense and tower defense works best when there are a variety of enemies with abilities that force you to diversify your defenses. So regen is good because you need explosives to really be effective with them or pairing blades and electrocution or turrets and spikes to compound the amount of damage being done.

    Additional zombie abilities are good if they are done with player countermeasures in mind AND current player metas that are trivializing the threats. These threats that make players have to rethink defense strategies don’t have to be introduced from the beginning but can emerge later in the game.

    For example, perches and underground have been discovered to be defenses that trivialize threat of the game but the concern has been “What about new players?” Well then diggers and player placed block busters can be introduced at higher gamestages so that new players can have their easily defensible bases at first but if they can’t adapt eventually their 100% safe havens will become threatened.

    Zombies that the Duke has encased in steel could shred blade traps if they get caught in them but not until later in the game once players have been able to use them successfully.

    And then bandits will be another story.
    Last edited by Roland; 12-27-2017 at 08:26 PM.

  2. #7412
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    This sounds awesome!

  3. #7413
    Colony Founder The Gronk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The thing is that this game is part tower defense and tower defense works best when there are a variety of enemies with abilities that force you to diversify your defenses. So regen is good because you need explosives to really be effective with them or pairing blades and electrocution or turrets and spikes to compound the amount of damage being done.

    Additional zombie abilities are good if they are done with player countermeasures in mind AND current player metas that are trivializing the threats. These threats that make players have to rethink defense strategies don’t have to be introduced from the beginning but can emerge later in the game.

    For example, perches and underground have been discovered to be defenses that trivialize threat of the game but the concern has been “What about new players?” Well then diggers and player placed block busters can be introduced at higher gamestages so that new players can have their easily defensible bases at first but if they can’t adapt eventually their 100% safe havens will become threatened.

    Zombies that the Duke has encased in steel could shred blade traps if they get caught in them but not until later in the game once players have been able to use them successfully.

    And then bandits will be another story.
    Digging Z's were tried and discarded. Gore blocks that allowed Z's to climb walls were tried, failed, and discarded. The only option left is to try and brute-force the defences with a greater enemy strength either through HP or shear weight of numbers.

    I hope both digging Z's and gore-blocks both make a return, they could be best solution to the problem but they'll need a lot of work to get them functioning properly.

  4. #7414
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gronk View Post
    Digging Z's were tried and discarded. Gore blocks that allowed Z's to climb walls were tried, failed, and discarded. The only option left is to try and brute-force the defences with a greater enemy strength either through HP or shear weight of numbers.

    I hope both digging Z's and gore-blocks both make a return, they could be best solution to the problem but they'll need a lot of work to get them functioning properly.
    I agree with pretty much everything The Gronk has been saying recently.

    I'm also not in favor of additional UI elements like enemy HP bars, nor in favor of regenerating zombies. Talk about video-gamey! That a rotting corpse would be healing, and quickly, is mind-boggling. The mutant-like wight maybe since it appears to be living but not the run of the mill zombies...

    Why not have the crawlers' attack aim down just a little, so if its target is a non-block entity like a door or player it damages the block beneath a little bit? Not quite a digger, but could eventually do some digging damage.

    The sheer accessibility of tons of concrete is more of the issue than anything else. Fleshy zombies grinding through meters of the stuff wouldn't be as much of an issue if you had much more trouble making meters of the stuff. A separation of steel tools from steel-as-blocks would help, too, so you could get your stamina-debilitating pickaxe without suddenly also being invulnerable to nearly any horde out there.

    The most fun I have in this game and a few others is when I'm cowering up a tree or 3 blocks under the surface, or carefully poking around the first few blocks of a ruin for basic supplies. The gymnastics the game has to go through to make late-stage challenging has, so far, just cheapened the whole experience. Any single entity that takes a whole horde's worth of damage to take down isn't worth the fight to me. Survival includes knowing when to avoid the confrontation entirely.

  5. #7415
    Colony Founder Xtrakicking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gronk View Post
    Digging Z's were tried and discarded. Gore blocks that allowed Z's to climb walls were tried, failed, and discarded. The only option left is to try and brute-force the defences with a greater enemy strength either through HP or shear weight of numbers.

    I hope both digging Z's and gore-blocks both make a return, they could be best solution to the problem but they'll need a lot of work to get them functioning properly.
    The thing is, what makes zombies scary is in the numbers they come in. When there's hundreds of zombies everywhere and they completely swarm your defenses, the only hope is for those defenses to hold until the threat is eliminated. No special abilities, no complex features or mechanics, just numbers.

    Obviously, this game will never be able to achieve something like that because the game can barely keep the framerate up to a decent level when there's more than 20 zombies on screen. We've truly come to a point where there's not many options to try, unless we make the terrain static.

  6. #7416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The thing is that this game is part tower defense and tower defense works best when there are a variety of enemies with abilities that force you to diversify your defenses. So regen is good because you need explosives to really be effective with them or pairing blades and electrocution or turrets and spikes to compound the amount of damage being done.

    Additional zombie abilities are good if they are done with player countermeasures in mind AND current player metas that are trivializing the threats. These threats that make players have to rethink defense strategies don’t have to be introduced from the beginning but can emerge later in the game.

    For example, perches and underground have been discovered to be defenses that trivialize threat of the game but the concern has been “What about new players?” Well then diggers and player placed block busters can be introduced at higher gamestages so that new players can have their easily defensible bases at first but if they can’t adapt eventually their 100% safe havens will become threatened.

    Zombies that the Duke has encased in steel could shred blade traps if they get caught in them but not until later in the game once players have been able to use them successfully.

    And then bandits will be another story.
    You have the Vomit Cops but have you played with the idea a zombie tearing pieces off it's rotting body and throwing them as projectiles? Maybe adding a damage & infection buff for a few seconds in an area effect where they land?

  7. #7417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xtrakicking View Post
    The thing is, what makes zombies scary is in the numbers they come in. When there's hundreds of zombies everywhere and they completely swarm your defenses, the only hope is for those defenses to hold until the threat is eliminated. No special abilities, no complex features or mechanics, just numbers.

    Obviously, this game will never be able to achieve something like that because the game can barely keep the framerate up to a decent level when there's more than 20 zombies on screen. We've truly come to a point where there's not many options to try, unless we make the terrain static.
    hi (new user ) been scouring the thread single MM's last post this was the comment i wanna open on first. Basically could we not have static terrain so any block randomly generated is static with a hit box, any damage that applies to the hitbox will toggle the static coding off for each block for say maybe 10 mins ?

    this could also prove benefit to the optimisation of the game for older/legacy GPUS to handle such a big generation simply because every block in the world thats generate is a static hit box until hit, then its a full block for 10 mins but for every single block in the world

  8. #7418
    Fun Pimps Staff Gazz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laz Man View Post
    Maybe when the player first encounters a regen mob they get a new journal entry about it?
    No. One. Reads. Journal. Entries.
    This is 2018. =)


    How all the abilities/perks will interact is still somewhat in the air.
    Radiation regen could for instance be canceled out by a burn effect. Hercules developed that in his fight with the hydra.

  9. #7419
    Colony Founder Dagzambie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzysfang View Post
    you'd probably need an NPC
    Now that is where it gets interesting!
    I wonder if the Pimps will come up with a follower as universally despised as Lydia?

  10. #7420
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmole View Post
    I get your point, I wasn't even intending on showing it, its just something that went in recently and we haven't even discussed all the show/hide rules yet and decided on anything final. Like I'm pretty sure we won't show on non hostiles or targets you haven't even engaged yet, or sleepers.
    It would probably take alot more work on the art side, but would it be possible to have model damage stages, like at 66% hp they get covered in blood/mud or whatever and have a few chunks missing, then at 30% they get big gouges out of their body, would remove some of the need for health bars, look cool as heck, help with immersion and convey useful information.
    This damage could just be exclusive to the torso, since thats the most visible part of the zombie, which could save some time for the animators, and limbs have a tendency to drop off.

    You could destroy the clothes in the process and just have a generic male and female damage models also to save time.

    Also, perhaps have different sound effects for bosses, if the boss has really high HP, give him a cocky sounding grunt or something, SFX can be great also to convey info, and probably alot cheaper than animation, saving the more grunty grunts for the big bads would not only convey useful information, but would make players ♥♥♥♥ themselves when they hear it

    I mind the health bars alot less than others, but i do understand why they are bothered, thought i might suggest another solution.

  11. #7421
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gronk View Post
    It may be a little late if they've already had an encounter with one.

    Such information should be easily (and optionally) obtainable from merchants. They've been surviving for a while and I doubt they want their customers to die too quickly.

    Other in-game cues could be things like posters put up during the final days of the apocalypse or simple graffiti as a warning to others.
    That sounds like a good idea. Something that a newbie would see and understand. You have a image of the zombie and over his head in red, as if written in blood, warning and then the info needed. Newbies shouldn't even have to face them until later in the game, but it helps them to be prepared for when they do run into it.

  12. #7422
    Colony Founder Xtrakicking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravnespromise96 View Post
    hi (new user ) been scouring the thread single MM's last post this was the comment i wanna open on first. Basically could we not have static terrain so any block randomly generated is static with a hit box, any damage that applies to the hitbox will toggle the static coding off for each block for say maybe 10 mins ?

    this could also prove benefit to the optimisation of the game for older/legacy GPUS to handle such a big generation simply because every block in the world thats generate is a static hit box until hit, then its a full block for 10 mins but for every single block in the world
    That wouldn't work because the game would be constantly checking the static hitbox of every block spawned. That would kill the framerate actually, and besides, that would also create a lot of problems when it comes to the structural integrity.

  13. #7423
    Guppycurian Forum Whore Guppycur's Avatar
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    If you gotta work that hard to justify a reason for health bars, then um...

  14. #7424
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Gronk View Post
    Digging Z's were tried and discarded. Gore blocks that allowed Z's to climb walls were tried, failed, and discarded. The only option left is ...
    Not so fast. There is more than one option left: Jumping Zombies, Zombie-throwing Zombies, ghost zombies, artillery zombies, mind control zombies, teleporting zombies, contortionist zombies, parachute exploding zombies, osmosis zombies, Reed Richards zombies, Dune worm zombies

    Before anyone gets triggered by any of these zombies, they could be confined to blood moon so your storage crates would still be safe if you just have the sense to use a separate blood moon base. I really really would prefer a few zombies that are a threat at blood moon without them destroying tons of real estate. Use them scarcely, give them weaknesses as well and they provide moments of horror without breaking the balance.

  15. #7425
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    Quote Originally Posted by meganoth View Post
    Not so fast. There is more than one option left: Jumping Zombies, Zombie-throwing Zombies, ghost zombies, artillery zombies, mind control zombies, teleporting zombies, contortionist zombies, parachute exploding zombies, osmosis zombies, Reed Richards zombies, Dune worm zombies

    Before anyone gets triggered by any of these zombies, they could be confined to blood moon so your storage crates would still be safe if you just have the sense to use a separate blood moon base. I really really would prefer a few zombies that are a threat at blood moon without them destroying tons of real estate. Use them scarcely, give them weaknesses as well and they provide moments of horror without breaking the balance.
    Lmao why not have zs that just teleport thru your walls and are unkillable. Zombies are dumb not futuristic smart aliens

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