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Thread: Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

  1. #44416
    Scavenger UsAfBrAn's Avatar
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    Any word on when that balance and performance update will hit? Was hoping before the weekend. Great work guys.

  2. #44417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boidster View Post

    So here's a random and flame-worthy thought: what if the game just gave you XP for surviving, on a logarithmic scale. Punch your grass, chop your trees, crack your rocks, forge your tools, build a base, kill some zombies, whatever. You earn a steady (and steadily increasing rate) of XP just for surviving. Maybe a little bonus for surviving blood moon. You die, your rate of XP gain gets reset to day 1 rates.
    Props for thinking of another way but no. At least the way things feel right now, I always feel like I'm behind on everything. Can't gather enough to both build a base and something to survive BM, always behind on finding something to make life easier whether it's hunting for food, a good find on a tool, a trader in the area, etc... A setback that starts your progression ability back to 1 when the rest of the game is at 14 would just turn into hating IMO.

    I'd like to see what they come up with to balance out the XP gains for doing other than Z hunting. The random horde pathing that seems to send it right through my living room every damn time will take care of that.

  3. #44418
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    Quote Originally Posted by UsAfBrAn View Post
    Any word on when that balance and performance update will hit? Was hoping before the weekend. Great work guys.
    bump

  4. #44419
    Refugee Devrix's Avatar
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    New build today? :-D

  5. #44420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devrix View Post
    New build today? :-D
    Crosses fingers and toes

  6. #44421
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    Quote Originally Posted by archergod View Post
    actually I don't want it to improve, Zed are difficult on Horde night, only if you have guts to make that base work than only it benefits you. Saw Kage's video and his base didn't work like this.

    Well, I've seen a few videos using the same mechanic that makes the zombies go in a loop using the ramps/slopes, like some kind of idea from the movie Inception, and I always expect they would just start to demolish the main tower the player is standing on but they always go back to the ramp after the jump and basically just move in circles. It just looks odd and unatural.

    Don't get me wrong, the new AI is absolutely fantastic, zombies behave so much better compared to A16, and I feel this ramp loop "exploit" is the last rock in the shoe on a road to a simply brilliant AI. I'm sure faatal could "fix" this behaviour if he tried, there's no doubt about it. That is, if TFP want this to be fixed, I know they don't want super smart zombies but for me this just looks odd.

    In my opinion, there should never be a safe pasive base where you survive a horde night with little to no effort. These ramp bases just feel like undergound bases in A16, and I feel people would appreciate the game more if that was not possible.

  7. #44422
    Reconstructionist Jay_ombie's Avatar
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    The more you program AI into an NPC the more patterns will start to emerge.

    I liked the simplicity of A16 zombies and those random circle movements, that always flipped the player with there bow aiming -- haha loved that.

    Now they all just line up single file and fall into a military march of lemmings to the slaughter....

    I have to ask which is better and more fun ?.. A16 or A17 zombie movement patterns ?
    Last edited by Jay_ombie; 6 Days Ago at 07:47 PM.

  8. #44423
    Tracker trielkee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger7Days View Post
    I think trying to improve the AI endlessly isn't really feasible as people will always find ways to exploit it. It probably would also quickly start to feel un-zombielike if they became too smart.

    I made a few suggestions for new infected >here<.

    I like the Blighter and Hivemind ideas alot, was thinking of something similar myself, like if the cops exploded in a radiation cloud that buffed the zombies in the vicinity, giving them a damage and health buff of sorts.

    Was always against special infected zombies like the radiated ones and puking cops, always felt that the real danger should come from a large amount of zombies, but due to voxel world limitations, special zombies are a creative way of bringing danger to the player.

    For me nighttime lacks something at the moment. It does create a really spooky atmosphere, and it does that damn well, but it needs something to keep you on the edge when exploring. Like a new type of zombie/special infected, a zombie much faster than the player, even when the player is sprinting, not vulnerable to bullets that much but to melee damage, that requires a special tactic and skill to run away from. It should only spawn in the world at nighttime, maybe even in some dark POIs as a surprise, after day 30 or so to keep the game fresh like you described. As it only spawns at nighttime, it would be very sensitive to light. You could keep it at a distance using the flashlight/torch, and it would always try to evade and pounce on you with a chance of destroying your torch/damaging the flashlight. This would be a high HP special infected, slightly bigger than the zombies and would walk and climb like the spider zombie.

    Just wishful thinking.

  9. #44424
    Tracker Drithyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay_ombie View Post
    The more you program AI into an NPC the more patterns will start to emerge.

    I liked the simplicity of A16 zombies and those random circle movements, that always flipped the player with there bow aiming -- haha loved that.

    Now they all just line up single file and fall into a military march of lemmings to the slaughter....

    I have to ask which is better and more fun ?.. A16 or A17 zombie movement patterns ?
    You can program AI with randomness too, which faatal stated he would get into eventually. Definitely a17 as far as which AI is better.
    Last edited by Drithyl; 6 Days Ago at 09:23 PM.

  10. #44425
    Reconstructionist Jay_ombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drithyl View Post
    You can program AI with randomness too, which faatal stated he would get into eventually. Definitely a17.
    Ahhhhh that is brilliant news, thanks for the heads up. Randomness is unpredictability, and that is what this game needs in abundance to provide game play longevity...

  11. #44426
    Hunter Dicey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trielkee View Post
    This would be a high HP special infected, slightly bigger than the zombies and would walk and climb like the spider zombie.
    Ghouls on all fours, been saying it for years.

  12. #44427
    Colony Founder The Gronk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boidster View Post
    I don't see how "skill up by doing" doesn't devolve to "spam crafting" again. How do I level up enough to craft "good quality" items besides...making lower-quality items? Or making whatever other doodad will level up Intelligence? Maybe sitting and pondering a zombie from a distance slowly starts adding intelligence XP?
    Easily enough balanced by diminishing XP returns from crafting multiple copies of the same item. After that you're hunting down different materials to craft with and working out what will give you the most returns for the least resources which can be a mini-game unto itself.

  13. #44428
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomBodet View Post
    At least the way things feel right now, I always feel like I'm behind on everything. Can't gather enough to both build a base and something to survive BM, always behind on finding something to make life easier whether it's hunting for food, a good find on a tool, a trader in the area, etc...
    You might want to try longer days. Even 90-minute days should slow the hectic pace a lot.

  14. #44429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drithyl View Post
    You can program AI with randomness too, which faatal stated he would get into eventually. Definitely a17.
    Where did he say "definitely a17"?

  15. #44430
    Inventor carbonkid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boidster View Post
    I don't see how "skill up by doing" doesn't devolve to "spam crafting" again. How do I level up enough to craft "good quality" items besides...making lower-quality items? Or making whatever other doodad will level up Intelligence? Maybe sitting and pondering a zombie from a distance slowly starts adding intelligence XP?
    By using the tool you built.
    You gain more experience of whats good and what flaws your tool/product/software has by using it. That should be the income of XP
    You can build as many axes you want but if you never use them you won't know how durable they are.

    That was basically what we had in a16. A solid system that just needed some patches.

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