View Poll Results: Which of these zombie aspects deserves top development priority?

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  • Zombie art direction

    4 3.64%
  • Zombie animations

    4 3.64%
  • Zombie special abilities

    26 23.64%
  • Zombie variety

    21 19.09%
  • Zombie numbers

    37 33.64%
  • Zombie sounds

    6 5.45%
  • The top priority is not zombie-related

    12 10.91%
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Thread: Zombie Development Priorities, Part II

  1. #31
    Ranger Minandreas's Avatar
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    I can't choose between special abilities and variety... I'm not sure exactly what category my thoughts go under. I would like to see different behaviors for different types of zombies in order to... add variety. By different behaviors I don't necessarily mean super powers either. I mean behaviors. I'm not so much for the idea of zombies that go the direction of mutant science experiments unleashed. I'd like them to still look and mostly function like a typical zombie, capable of things a human being might be capable of. You can add tons of gameplay variety simply by having what is statistically the same exact enemy, behave in a variety of different ways.
    Last edited by Minandreas; 02-13-2018 at 04:32 PM.

  2. #32
    Community Moderator Crater Creator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minandreas View Post
    I can't choose between special abilities and variety... I'm not sure exactly what category my thoughts go under. I would like to see different behaviors for different types of zombies in order to... add variety. By different behaviors I don't necessarily mean super powers either. I mean behaviors. I'm not so much for the idea of zombies that go the direction of mutant science experiments unleashed. I'd like them to still look and mostly function like a typical zombie, capable of things a human being might be capable of. You can add tons of gameplay variety simply by having what is statistically the same exact enemy, behave in a variety of different ways.
    That would be zombie abilities to my mind, while zombie variety (my favorite) is meant to reduce or eliminate the appearance of clones. But of course, you can interpret the options how you like.

  3. #33
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    Chose 'animations', broadly speaking, behaviors and such would be nice. Loving the work and effort being involved so far, having bought the game a... significant length of time ago, quite happy with it. There's other things, but will address that first. Personal thoughts and such, hopefully not too long-winded.

    Spoiler: 
    I've noticed there's no significant 'stumble to their left/your right' when struck in the head, or a longer 'stumble backward' reaction. It seems there is a stark difference between no reaction to being struck, or plays one of a few animations - even a light attack should cause a visible flinch, and a heavier one a loss of balance other than moving forwards and to your right.

    Granted, very much so, witnessed in a recent video how zombies appear to adopt ragdoll physics and being thrown back due to impact from a vehicle, or a shotgun blast could give a greater sense of weight to melee; knocking a zombie down with a knife might have the zed shudder, bleed a bit then play half a collapsing animation, before adopting ragdoll physics. A sledgehammer to the head could send it crashing to the ground heavily or using the same heavy-weight weapon against the legs should cause the zombie to topple over gracelessly.

    To note, the physics of a UMA zombie when it dies is, in a odd way, interesting - collapses in a heap, semi-curled up, rather creepy I must say.

    The idle standing animation that is occasionally played (snarling, shaking body, twitching or snarling?), especially when seen from a distance, in the fog or at night-time, is quite unnerving, would be lovely to have more like that, or even zombies having a small chance of randomly playing animations while moving about or approaching a target, such as stumbling, tripping or stopping to shake themselves, including clambering up stairs or over blocks, either full sized blocks or ones like 1-block high fencing, windows, etc.

    If possible, clearly separating animations used for attacks against blocks or entities too, certain attacks only against living targets, certain attacks only against blocks. The movements of a zombie throwing itself against and repeatedly pounding at a wall with their fists look good, though sometimes do not feel to me like they translate to how much damage is inflicted on something like a hollow wood-wall or a solid brick surface.

    Adding to such, maybe more attack animations, one being a slow wind-up and a quick forward lunge or slash, or sometimes zombies stumbling to the side or forwards after swiping, more likely when they miss, allowing the player to provoke an attack, dodge it, then hammer at the enemy as they stumble from forward momentum or simply losing balance.

    Having seen the video that introduces blended animation into players, would it be possible do the same for the enemies we encounter daily, or to also involve physics? Aka damaging a zombie's arm enough could see it become useless, thus flopping about limply, or a crawling zombie's legs drag behind, bouncing or twitching erratically, more visual weight and feedback, though quite minor admittedly.


    Numbers would be nice if possible, more a second priority or such.
    Spoiler: 
    One of the most threatening aspects of the undead are generally not necessarily the individuals, but the fact they build up in numbers when they hear or see something, anything, that stimulates their remaining senses into taking interest. Knowing that given towns and villages are silent, where you find one undead, there are rather more hanging about as 'sleepers' or wanderers, less priority but would give an incentive to be quiet until the player finds or crafts more multi-target weapons, or melee/ranged weapons can strike through or at more than a single target per attack, like a rifle-bullet penetrating one enemy and stumbling another, or a sledgehammer's wide swing knocking two zombies backward.


    Appearance tying in with variety visually, is another thing.

    Spoiler: 
    Last year or so, played Minecraft, one tool or mod utilised was choosing a random appearance using a file in a mob's folder for a spawned enemy. Granted, the level of detail both physical and graphical is pretty massive, but given the game randomly chooses which unit to spawn from a list, would it possible to have the game randomly pick an appearance or texture when a zombie spawns, maybe one or two variations per model used for an entity?

    Doesn't need to have alterations to the model, something as simple as two entities sharing the same model type (Zombie Boe, Moe or Steve for example) having different visuals, like skin, clothing, hair colours or details, for example one spawned 'Steve' having red trousers, another having greener skin, another having severe visual damage. Brings to mind the 'retextured zombies' mod, could have two visuals for each model using a default or a damaged variation upon spawning.

    Maybe entity texture could depend upon health? A zombie that is at less than half-health or killed, could swap from default to damaged/bloodied.


    Another thing for sounds... creepiest aspect of night is knowing something is there, but you can't see it, blocks that generate noise have helped, but more feedback to movement really adds to the atmosphere, and probably mentioned is footsteps/noises being sorted out for the 'ninja-zeds', though that has been remarked and worked on too.

    Spoiler'd thoughts, more compacted given it is rather difficult not to mention things other than simply one area to improve.
    Last edited by Dragontear; 02-13-2018 at 09:26 PM.

  4. #34
    Community Moderator OzHawkeye's Avatar
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    Excellent poll - I plumped for (again) zombie numbers.

    I want to see a city in the distance and know I'd better be fully stocked with all kinda fun guns and ammo before even thinking of setting foot inside.

  5. #35
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    'Numbers' getting a lot of votes, do we really want more numbers of the same type? ATM most prefabs have zombies in them, random wandering horde is also adding more numbers, if they were all over the street and towns you would be dealing with the same zombies over and over every few meters.

    Take L4D2 and Dead Rising same zombies everywhere (L4D2 specials made it interesting). If you were on a quest or looting for a certain item dealing with the same zombie would become a chore. Add a few more maybe in towns as its a little quiet at times but wouldn't want it to turn into a arcadey action shooter.

    Take for example removing gamestages, every type of zombie spawned on day 1, it would make you pick your fights, or think how to deal with a radiated cop with basic items rather than shooting the same basic zombie over and over. Special abilities for me, make us think / fight tactically. More numbers = less brain usage = slowly turning us into zombies!

  6. #36
    Reconstructionist RestInPieces's Avatar
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    Eh, does the animations option mean completely new animations or improved animations for existing actions? If it's the latter and more animations lead to less predictability, I'd easily change my vote from variety (visual) to animations.

  7. #37
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    Variety and Abilities

    I voted for variety - but i think it also kind of includes Abilities

    Would like to see some special night-only zombies/monsters, making getting outside safe house at night more challenging.

  8. #38
    Inventor toores's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SickPuppy View Post
    'Numbers' getting a lot of votes, do we really want more numbers of the same type? ATM most prefabs have zombies in them, random wandering horde is also adding more numbers, if they were all over the street and towns you would be dealing with the same zombies over and over every few meters.

    Take L4D2 and Dead Rising same zombies everywhere (L4D2 specials made it interesting). If you were on a quest or looting for a certain item dealing with the same zombie would become a chore...
    Please read below:
    (i hid it in spoiler because i already quoted this in this very thread)

    Spoiler: 

    Quote Originally Posted by geengaween View Post
    You'll notice a key difference - the Dead Rising zombies are designed to be viewed as a crowd, not individually. They are low res, but they actually look like dead corpses. They don't really have distinguishing features. Rather than making them boring, this makes them less repetitive since you don't notice when the models and skins are reused.

    If you compare that to the 7 days to die zombies, the 7DTD zombies are more like MMORPG mobs. They have very distinguishing appearances which makes crowds of them look very repetitive. They all have their own names like "decayed mother" and "infected survivor". Some of them look good, like the feral zombie and the one with all the flesh stripped from his torso. Others have ridiculous features like massive breasts and silly nurse costumes. Their faces are comical and rubbery-looking, like halloween masks. These are the oldest ones from the earliest alphas. I really hope they are just place holders and they'll be replaced with better ones one day.

    I wish the zombies in 7DTD could be more like the zombies in Dead Rising. I think their names should be scrapped first of all, since that draws attention to the repetition. We don't need to know their names, just "destroyed zombie" is a good enough name when you loot them. I'd really love UMA zombies to make a comeback. Failing that, I'd like the models to be reworked and made to look less repetitive, with faces and bodies designed to blend in rather than stand out.


    ...Add a few more maybe in towns as its a little quiet at times but wouldn't want it to turn into a arcadey action shooter.

    Take for example removing gamestages, every type of zombie spawned on day 1, it would make you pick your fights, or think how to deal with a radiated cop with basic items rather than shooting the same basic zombie over and over. Special abilities for me, make us think / fight tactically. More numbers = less brain usage = slowly turning us into zombies!
    Totally disagree. I don't want it to turn into "mortal combat" where you fight special zombies one by one. Just learn the their tricks and defeat them.
    What good is stealth, if you are able to kill every zombie that you can see? If there were more zombies, you'd really have to pick your battles. More numbers = harder to "kite" zombies around to only fight 1vs1. Having 100 zombie crown in a city, would make me consider going stealth and only quietly killing the ones that see me. If too many see you, run.

    Also with 100 zombie crowds, you'd have to be sure to lose them by night time or the'd tear the house down in minutes.

    I'm not saying there shouldn't be any specials. Some are good, but having more health-regenerating acid-spitting zombies in a regular 10 zombie crowd to increase difficulty is also pretty repetitive and boring.

    Dying Light is the best experience i've had in terms of atmospheric zombie game. Loads of zombies. There are specials, but they are mostly near some objectives or POIs. If all the zombies in Dying Light ran in the night, it would be scary as hell.

  9. #39
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    The post by geengaween seems to be connecting variety and numbers together, which was a close second to my top pick Special Abilities. So it's not that I'm against having more variety and numbers but we can choose one option, it would be great to have specials and numbers.

    But there's a lot of contradiction and misunderstanding here:

    Quote Originally Posted by toores View Post

    Totally disagree. I don't want it to turn into "mortal combat" where you fight special zombies one by one. Just learn the their tricks and defeat them.
    What good is stealth, if you are able to kill every zombie that you can see? If there were more zombies, you'd really have to pick your battles. More numbers = harder to "kite" zombies around to only fight 1vs1. Having 100 zombie crown in a city, would make me consider going stealth and only quietly killing the ones that see me. If too many see you, run.
    I'm not sure how you got a 1v1 beat em up game from my post, it's practically impossible to make it a 1v1 on horde night. The whole point of specials is to not be able to kill them easily, so you would have to play stealth and tactically. I'm not sure why you think I want everything killable either.

    What if there was a special that was unkillable? You can only lure it away with food or light?
    Or a special that was only killable by fire, you don't have fire weapons so you would have to play stealth. It would also give a use to the Flame Arrow. I'm making these up, I'm sure the devs are more creative.

    I'm not sure why you are relating special zombies to not able to playing stealth especially when radiated cops start showing up in prefabs. I certainly feel more inclined to go stealth when I see a cop in a building compared to a basic zombie. I think most of us try to play stealth anyway, but stealth is limited, you break a door or window, close a cabinet etc there is a random chance to wake and attract outside zombies, unless you are entering and playing stealth in some different way and not opening safes? It's contradicting to say you want 100s of zombies but you want to play stealth? You can't tell me you're moving unnoticed in DeadRising?! Having more different specials is to add variety to game play instead of shooting everything in the head, rinse and repeat. I'm actually trying to use some of the other items to spice up the game play, candy tin mines ftw.

    Quote Originally Posted by toores View Post
    Also with 100 zombie crowds, you'd have to be sure to lose them by night time or the'd tear the house down in minutes.
    This point is just strange, because the zombies are almost completely blind at night. Night time right after a wandering horde has passed is the best time to go get resources. You can literally chop trees down with zombies just a few blocks away completely unaware of you. And if you have night vision, night is the best time to hit town. You can even quickly flick your mining helmet on and off and they will immediately lose track of you.


    Quote Originally Posted by toores View Post
    I'm not saying there shouldn't be any specials. Some are good, but having more health-regenerating acid-spitting zombies in a regular 10 zombie crowd to increase difficulty is also pretty repetitive and boring.
    I'm taking the polls Zombie Special Abilities means more 'different' abilities not just more of the same health regen and spitting cops. I don't really understand how a crowd of 10 basic zombies is more challenging / fun than
    3 basic zombies,
    2 cops,
    2 spiders,
    1 football zombie resistant to headshots killable only by fire arrow to the heart,
    1 zombie that attacks you at twice the speed only if you've aggro'd it
    and 1 unkillable dancing stripper that you can only keep calm by feeding it $$$,
    seriously I'm making these up.

    Also I'm guessing numbers where toned down because of the introduction of the big tower mazes in cities/towns causing performance issues. Especially when wandering hordes show up fps drops a fair bit. Hopefully numbers can go up with more optimization.

    Haven't played Dying Light but I thought they ran at night?

    To be honest I think we're on the same page wanting the same things, numbers and specials, but it's the poll, it's trying to divide us. IT'S THE POLL TRYING TO DIVIDE US!!!!!
    Last edited by SickPuppy; 02-14-2018 at 04:35 PM.

  10. #40
    Ranger Druga Runda's Avatar
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    It's the poll seeing how we would like to play, we all roughly want the thing, ie interesting single player experience after 1k+ hours, as the game already delivers at lower levels of hours spent, but we differ in the opinion on how to get there.

    In my view, given regular game limitations the order should be. (excluding pathing which needs to be fixed, but again pathing should be as simple as possible to allow the following)

    *high number of zombies
    *some zombie variety, which we already largely have
    *Get the visuals to as good as possible given the constraints above

    The reason for the order is that if you address point #3 or 2 before #1, #1 is lost, ie the numbers reduce and an element of gameplay is lost.

    We are already there in A16, pushing 64 is killing older PC's and for me the joint force of 64 is clearly not enough, not on regular days and certainly not on D7.

    AI will always be dumb, and you can outplay a number of them, unless they are bullet sponges/some boring game mechanic where the game feels like work. The only scenario for me where AI is interesting is "group behaviour" ie, many dumb enemies doing the same thing turning into something great. Hundreds of zombies reacting to your actions swarming around and overwhelming you/what you thought was enough to take them out/structure you built which was meant to keep them away.

    This is what I am hoping for as the game was like that in the early alphas a lot more than it is today. We may never get back there again, but that certainly beats any character progression or zombie variety for me.

  11. #41
    Community Moderator Crater Creator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RestInPieces View Post
    Eh, does the animations option mean completely new animations or improved animations for existing actions? If it's the latter and more animations lead to less predictability, I'd easily change my vote from variety (visual) to animations.
    The last poll had more detailed options, like "Their appearance. Redraw them to be more scary, gory, and decayed." I didn't like that, because maybe you don't like how zombies look, but you think scary, gory, and decayed is exactly the wrong direction to go. If so, you wouldn't want to vote for that option, even if you thought zombie appearance was the top priority.

    So I generalized choices to be more inclusive. If the thing you think deserves the most attention is first and foremost animation-based, whatever the specifics, then I would vote for animations. Or more accurately, since I don't want to tell people how to vote, that's how I would interpret a vote for animations.

  12. #42
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    The poll shouldn't divide anyone. Just because I voted abilities doesn't mean I don't want numbers. I do want greater numbers. I want all those things. I just think that until beta optimizations numbers aren't a realistic thing to increase because it is going to kill framerates. Abilities is something that can be done now and then numbers can be increased later. No division.

  13. #43
    Colony Founder Maharin's Avatar
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    I see numbers as a beta phase thing. In other words, higher numbers is a result of optimization. If this weren't a voxel game with the already high CPU requirements I'd say higher numbers (like Dying Light) would be more likely. Who knows? Maybe once they hit the optimization stage they're able to get 100's of zombies on screen at once. It could happen.

  14. #44
    Ranger Druga Runda's Avatar
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    It'd be nice, but I find it unlikely, it will more likely be an uphill battle to keep the numbers where they are and "pretty" up the game/add other stuff while not reducing them further.

    Can't blame the devs though as pretty sells, it's kind of amazing that we even got this type of game at all, but I do agree that "numbers" have to be more of a philosophical rather than an economic choice.

    The polls basically show the same, even here where we have a much more hardcore audience than what you can expect with the general public.

    If the Pimps only had a good method of monetizing us (ie those few who spends 1000's of hours for the $25 or whatever paid originally ) it may make more sense to tailor the game closer to what we would want, but I cannot even think of the method, even through it must be there (not the loot boxes though, please).

    There are actually millions of $$$ hidden in this game somewhere given the audience (older, generally wealthy gamers bored with the regular regurgitated crap offered in most other new AAA titles or otherwise), but that mystery needs to be unlocked somehow. Perhaps I will post something on that topic if I think of anything I would deem appropriate. If there was some good non-game breaking monetizing dynamic I would probably spend a few hundred $$$ by now as well, the game deserves it as is. If they up z numbers, they deserve it even more.

    Perhaps a dollar for every extra zombie past 64, I would give at least another $200.

  15. #45
    Inventor toores's Avatar
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    Almost replied TL;TR

    Quote Originally Posted by SickPuppy View Post
    I'm not sure how you got a 1v1 beat em up game from my post, it's practically impossible to make it a 1v1 on horde night.
    Not talking about horde night.
    You can literally walk in the biggest city in the game and melee kill all zombies you can find one by one because the most zombies you have to kite simultaneously is like 5.

    The whole point of specials is to not be able to kill them easily, so you would have to play stealth and tactically. I'm not sure why you think I want everything killable either.
    To be honest, i don't care about what you want at all. I care abut what i want
    And i want masses of regular zombies zombies rather then:

    3 basic zombies,
    2 cops,
    2 spiders,
    1 football zombie resistant to headshots killable only by fire arrow to the heart,
    1 zombie that attacks you at twice the speed only if you've aggro'd it
    and 1 unkillable dancing stripper that you can only keep calm by feeding it $$$,
    seriously I'm making these up.
    Yeah, sound more like sci-fi alien stuff...

    This point is just strange, because the zombies are almost completely blind at night. Night time right after a wandering horde has passed is the best time to go get resources. You can literally chop trees down with zombies just a few blocks away completely unaware of you. And if you have night vision, night is the best time to hit town. You can even quickly flick your mining helmet on and off and they will immediately lose track of you.
    Well, doesn't that seem like broken to you. Lets make them not completely blind and a bit more relentless. Then it would be very bad to have 100 zombies on your tail when 22:00 hits.

    I'm taking the polls Zombie Special Abilities means more 'different' abilities not just more of the same health regen and spitting cops. I don't really understand how a crowd of 10 basic zombies is more challenging / fun than
    By "health-regenerating acid-spitting" i meant all special abilities, not just zombie cops. In my head, when i was typing that, i was all sarcastic and stuff. And i'm thinking 100 of regular zombies is more fun then 10 of... well, this bunch again:

    3 basic zombies,
    2 cops,
    2 spiders,
    1 football zombie resistant to headshots killable only by fire arrow to the heart,
    1 zombie that attacks you at twice the speed only if you've aggro'd it
    and 1 unkillable dancing stripper that you can only keep calm by feeding it $$$,
    seriously I'm making these up.
    So, although the poll is trying to divide us, the key difference is:
    I would be happy if not a single additional special zombie makes it into the game but zombie crowds would be like 100 strong.
    BUT i would not care much for 15 more special abilities added to the game if i only saw 15 zombies at a time in the biggest city on the map.

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