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Thread: Kickstarter Goals Abandoned?!?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    This is in the realm of hypotheticals as it is only the plan and plans can change:

    Proposed Repair System

    Field Repairs: When you repair an item out in the field using your backpack as the workstation it will place a penalizing "badmod" in a mod slot. Each time you repair, the badmod will gain greater penalties. These could affect durability and damage which would basically bring it in line with what we've known as guns degrade to lower tiers (less durability and less damage) but there could be other effects attached to this badmod that could cause other problems that wouldn't have been possible under the old system.

    Workbench Repairs: When you repair an item at a workbench you will be able to do it without penalty and you will be able to remove any badmod that got attached to your gun during a field repair.

    All of this is just a plan for now so unfortunately we may have to suffer through penalty-free repairing at first. Also they may make alterations or go in a different direction altogether when it comes time to implement so don't marry yourself to this plan.

    I already know that someone wants to ask the question of what happens if all mod slots are full and the answer to that will be forthcoming when the system and decisions about immovability of mods has been completely firmed up and decided. The options I can see are:

    1) The mod is destroyed and replaced by the badmod
    2) An additional slot only used for badmod due to field repairs could be implemented
    3) The mod is popped out into your inventory and the slot is blocked by the badmod but you don't lose your mod.
    You said that we won't need a specific skill or workbench to modify our weapons, cool, but how does it go with this proposed repair system where you actually need workbench to repair your weapon without penalties? I'm not a weapon expert, but I imagine that some modifications to your weapon, especially in a post apocalyptic world would have to be done in not exactly precise fashion to begin with, so to speak. What I mean is that even by adding mods to your weapon, you would most likely have to get your hands dirty and in some cases you would have to improvise a lot and with the crude tools to do those modifications, especially without workbench or specific skill, wouldn't it greatly increase a chance of damaging the weapon somehow? And if so, if applying mod to your weapon could damage your weapon, shouldn't it be a factor in game too? Don't get me wrong, I am honestly glad it isn't the case right now, but it still makes me wornder, because it also works the other way around - if we had some repair penalty for repairing the weapon without workbench, shouldn't we also have a chance of damaging the weapon by applying mods without workbench and proper tools? And then if we wouldn't want that kind of thing to be a part of the game, would it really make sense for this kind of repair penalty to be a thing if any other kind of changes done to your weapon wouldn't really downgrade its quality?

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by meganoth View Post
    ~~~
    Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but you're replying to something I wrote to another user, you're replying in ways that show me that you didn't really understand what I meant to say and while I do see that you're quite a writer (congrats on the 1k+ posts), right now I don't feel like going through all of my points again just to explain what I meant to say there, especially when it was actually someone else I was talking to, so I think there's no point in doing that. Thanks for understanding.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by RestInPieces View Post
    Make an effort to gain wellness back, for which reason exactly? Some more max health/stamina, even less with the "health nut" perk, which I could outheal/outregen, never motivated me in the least, even at higher difficulties. Dying regularly and resetting your status was much more beneficial. Same with every one I've ever played with. Wellness was a good concept, but poorly implemented. I don't remember any information about death in any of the videos. Can you link?
    I think this is all just about your playstyle, I can tell you that I was never really happy with losing wellness and I always tried hard to get it back and eventually get some permanent wellness boost, but "eventually" is a key word here, because I always found it more important to invest points into other skills first, especially early in the game, maybe it was because I mostly played solo and sometimes with my niece, but still mostly solo and the leveling just doesn't come so often for me there.

    Admittedly I played mostly modded game as of late, but I also have invested many hours into standard base game, so I can see pretty well what kind of difference is there in the balance including but not limited to experience gain, the overall rate of getting more points in both types of games and when I really needed to level up faster, I usually did a lot of quests and then on my way back to the base, I always tried to hunt a deer or two so that I could cook, I was cooking like crazy and then I ate all of it just to regain that lost wellness from just one death, so for me or my playstyle death was punishing enough.

    I know maybe I could go around it, make it easier somehow, but then again I played it my way and maybe it's also one thing to consider, because developers obviously should cover as many playstyles as possible. They can't make everyone happy for sure, but we all can't play the same way, otherwise it would be boring and it just wouldn't feel right for us.

    As for the question about death being more of an issue in Alpha 17+, Joel talks about it here.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.devolver View Post
    Sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but you're replying to something I wrote to another user
    Yes, as practically everyone is doing in a forum. Thanks for understanding the function of a forum.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by meganoth View Post
    Yes, as practically everyone is doing in a forum. Thanks for understanding the function of a forum.
    Everyone who feels like there's a point in that, that is...

  6. #96
    Reconstructionist RestInPieces's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.devolver View Post
    because developers obviously should cover as many playstyles as possible. They can't make everyone happy for sure, but we all can't play the same way, otherwise it would be boring and it just wouldn't feel right for us.
    Btw Rick said that this was one of the mistakes they made. It is also general knowledge that doing that will lead to a half-baked design for everybody. What he said may mean a lot of things though so nevermind what he said.

    What is painfully obvious to me is that trying to cover as many playstyles as possible whithin the game itself (instead of menu options), will lead to an abstract, bad game design. This is the first community I've been in, that so many people confuse player gameplay freedom with choosing their difficulty level while playing. A good example of that is the "safe space" debate. They can't accomodate both the playstyle of these players and those who want the survival experience.

    I am against too many options for reasons that I don't want to get into right now, big discussion. But things like spoilage, consistent greater character death penalty (losing your backpack is too circumstantial), or harsher survival elements in general, should be available with options, if developers should really cover as many playstyles as possible.


    Quote Originally Posted by mr.devolver View Post
    As for the question about death being more of an issue in Alpha 17+, Joel talks about it here.
    At first glance penalty seems like no big deal. Plus endurance perks alleviate it. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement for when I play it myself.

    turds have been removed from the game
    This is a sad day.
    Last edited by RestInPieces; 3 Days Ago at 10:39 AM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Here is what I said about repair and degradation of quality in my original post



    Here is what I said in my answer to devolver in answer to his concern that all found guns in loot will basically be the same because until a mod could be found they would for all intents and purposes be exactly the same.







    That's fine. I can't help what you feel is boring or how much of a "sky is falling" attitude you want to take about my report of the current status of a WIP feature.



    Well, no duh. I never said you have to love it. In fact my reply to you in no way was trying to convince you that you should like the changes. It was pretty much all 100% objecting to you presenting my report as being insincere or fudged. Or do you not understand what the term "spin" means when you use it? Go back and read my reply and you'll see that I was defending my honesty in reporting and spending zero time trying to convince you that something was or was not boring. In my reply (quoted above) to devolver I WAS trying to convince him that the new system would not be as boring as he might have thought but that was not the subject of my response to YOU.



    Okay, Jax. It's going to be more boring for you.



    There is nothing in your posting that is NOT hypothetical and yet you post quite a bit...



    Well now that you aren't accusing me of posting things to simply try to put lipstick on a pig I'm happy to clarify that all of those qualities and stats absolutely are affected by mods. Of course there is a base stat for each baked into the base guns but they will all be able to be modified in different ways and even be activated by different events. So adding a mod that causes the club to do more damage when your hp reaches a certain point is possible and something the old gun parts could never do. Drinking something or wearing something could also affect those stats. So even beyond gun attachments you could have a cowboy hat that would give you a bonus to reload speed when using the Revolver whenever you're wearing it. So yes the mod attachments will be able to control everything from range to fall off, to spread and much much more.



    It's not your criticism of the game that I took to heart, Jax. You oscillate on your excitement vs outrage over hypothetical changes so often (despite your proclaimed inability to post on said hypotheticals) that I am always nonplussed now by either your praise or your criticism.

    You came at me, bro, regarding my integrity. I make mistakes (which I've owned up to and corrected twice on this thread alone) but I'm not dishonest. Yes, its the internet so I must be duplicitous right? Well, I can't help how anyone takes what I post but I also can respond to posts like yours and Benjiro that accuse me of being a koolaid drinking yes-man spin doctor and refute it so that reasonable folks can decide if they will trust what I post or not.

    And I hold no grudge on this either. Bygones. I'll bug Gazz and see what I can find out about repair and degradation.
    We are definitely good Roland, I know you well enough on here to know you aren't the Kool Aid drinking kind which is why I respect you so much. My jab at you came from a place of me assuming that you didn't put as much stock in the ramifications of the repair system.

    We all have our things that we feel are important. My assumption that you didn't care enough about repairs to think it's even an issue was obviously wrong but I know you are not a shill. You're one of the most fair and balanced moderators of ANY EA forum I have ever been a part of. Ive told you this in private as well.

    Thank you for inquiring about the system. My apologies to you if I came off as insulting, when I was actually trying to be condescending

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by RestInPieces View Post
    Btw Rick said that this was one of the mistakes they made. It is also general knowledge that doing that will lead to a half-baked design for everybody. What he said may mean a lot of things though so nevermind what he said.

    What is painfully obvious to me is that trying to cover as many playstyles as possible whithin the game itself (instead of menu options), will lead to an abstract, bad game design. This is the first community I've been in, that so many people confuse player gameplay freedom with choosing their difficulty level while playing. A good example of that is the "safe space" debate. They can't accomodate both the playstyle of these players and those who want the survival experience.

    I am against too many options for reasons that I don't want to get into right now, big discussion. But things like spoilage, consistent greater character death penalty (losing your backpack is too circumstantial), or harsher survival elements in general, should be available with options, if developers should really cover as many playstyles as possible.




    At first glance penalty seems like no big deal. Plus endurance perks alleviate it. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement for when I play it myself.



    This is a sad day.
    Gameplay freedom isn't necessarily the same as playstyle freedom. Gameplay is a backbone of what the developers want their game to be and playstyle freedom is the way you want to play the game (within possibilities of the gameplay features), sure it's connected to game difficulty, but game difficulty is just something that's supposed to affect the challenge you experience, but you should still be able to play the way you want to play. Difficulty is the level of challenge that you must go through within the possibilities of the gameplay to beat the game, it's the way the game treats you as a player, not the way you play the game. Of course these two things must be in balance, you can't use a rocket launcher on day one if the game difficulty doesn't let you find one on day one, but if you like to play with rocket launcher, because it's a part of your own playstyle, you should definitely be allowed to find one and use it eventually and set your own difficulty to define how hard it will be to find it.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    <snip>
    I agree pretty much with all these, so I won't do a blow by blow. It was a well balanced take of it, and I've said something similar many times and either get attacked by people saying I'm dumb coz ALL the kickstarter goals have been met, or I'm an idiot coz obviously the game was abandoned, will never be finished, and we should bring the torches and pitchforks!

    Overall, the only main issue I have are the timelines to get things done, and that's not even part of kickstarter... or steam EA. But that's entirely on me, as I am too excited to play new versions and really want to see it done. And I just play other games, while I play vanilla, play mods, and enjoy it while knowing at some point the next version will come out and I'll be happy to play that one too!

    People get very hung up on EA, alpha, beta versions and what have you. I've played AAA games that were in worse shapes overall (maybe look polished, but plays like crap), and they were not being fixed, maybe some balancing patches but definitely not years of additional development to fix. And those were "released" games. So to me it still comes down to, was the premise it was sold on, the cost of it, in line with the value that it has delivered.

    To me, it's far exceeded the value, and the premise it was sold on, and it's still being worked on.

    But then again, I still play Minecraft on and off, and it's 8 years since that one was alpha when I started, and it seems to just continue on slowly with new content, features, expanded. Yet while there might have been an "official" release date for version 1.0, I don't see that impacting, it's the continued development and expansion of the game that's kept it alive, kept it being loved.

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