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Thread: Can the Fun Pimps confirm if zombie digging will remain in it's present state?

  1. #61
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazyknob View Post
    It comes to a point where some of you hardliners are apparently dense and beyond reasoning.

    Zombies used to dig. Great.

    Then Zombies couldn't dig, okay!

    People found a safe way in underground bases, being able to focus on things they love like mining, crafting, or just underground bunker design. They found a way to play that they really enjoyed!

    A17, digging zombies return.

    Now you see, your views that zombies should dig, does not neutralize the view that zombies shouldn't dig. It goes into an infinite loop. Maybe you like chasing your own tails, but I don't.
    Not so. The real progression was

    Zombies could dig but they had crap for AI
    Zombie digging was removed because of their crap AI
    AI got fixed
    Zombie digging was reinstated with good AI

    Not really an infinite loop at all.

    If the removal of zombie diggers never happened, then this segment of players would never have discovered the 'underground' lifestyle. And would've never discovered a way to play for them which they really enjoyed. But it happened, and you took it away, and that's why players are upset.
    This is all part and parcel of the whole development process. And it hasn't been taken away any more than playing in the Forest is taken away just because zombies can find you there. Digging zombies does not prevent underground dwelling. Nobody at TFP made plans to prevent players from living underground.

    Is that, thaaat hard to understand? Saying ZOMBIES SHOULD DIG ZOMBIES SHOULD DIG, is just as petulant as, ZOMBIES SHOULDN'T DIG, ZOMBIES SHOULDN'T DIG, no matter how well worded posts from either side end up being. So the devs have the final say, as seen from that other dev fataaaal or something, proposing this segment of players should just disable zombies. If you're gonna be as dismissive as this, do it only when your refund policy is just as flexible.
    He wasn't being dismissive, he was being honest. Here is some more. Revert to A16 and that is another solution. Stay underground 6 days and go topside for the bloodmoon and there is another solution. The devs have made the decision that they want digging zombies now that there is a proper AI and pathing feature to support it.

    Otherwise, just let the players who've had a way of play which they really enjoyed taken away from them vent and maybe some day the Devs become more open to options and realize restaurants open to serve customers first, chef's ego/vision/cuisine second.
    Their restaurant is open to serve customers certainly. They are offering a menu that some really like and others don't. Just because you don't like what is on the menu it means they must change it up to suit you to the detriment of other customers? Myself and others have been WAITING for digging zombies to return for years so that the underworld will be more interesting to play in. Are we less customers than you? No change is going to please everyone. They made the change because it is what they consider to be fun and there are plenty of customers that agree. There may be aspects of the game you are happy about that others are not? Are you going to give up those features you like so that those who hate it can have it their way instead of you getting it your way?

    My hope is that people will be able to mod digging zombies out if they really detest them or that eventually the game will have an easy option for it.

  2. #62
    Inventor Jugginator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    Myself and others have been WAITING for digging zombies to return for years so that the underworld will be more interesting to play in. Are we less customers than you?
    This! I have been so sad I haven't been able to build a base, or use one of the POI fallout shelters, underground due to never getting a chance to defend them. I was giddy about all the changes, but the AI and digging got me stoked. Soon as stable comes out, possibly beforehand, I will be building my "dream" base. I love the fact I can dig my own cave at the core of the world, but never was able to because... well... that'ts it. I sit there saying "Oh this is cool... no zombies... im bored.. guess I gotta live above world again."

  3. #63
    Super Moderator Roland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limdood View Post
    Ah yes, the "I didn't experience it so it can't possibly happen" defense...

    Which ignores the evidence of the "I experienced this exact thing" people.

    Who's more credible? The person who tried one experiment and said "this CAN'T happen" or the person who the thing that can't happen literally happened to?
    They are both true obviously.

    The intended feature is that wandering hordes have a target they walk towards that is offset from the player anywhere from 30 - 50 meters if I am not mistaken. If they don't hear you or see you then they will continue onward. When they reach their target they disperse and remain in that area until they either despawn or a player happens upon them and kills them. If you've ever decided to follow a horde without killing them you'll see them reach a spot and then disperse in random directions every single time.

    The other relevant intended feature is that zombies don't attack blocks unless they are aware of a player.

    Deviations to the above behavior is the result of bugs or possibly networking errors. Sounds to me from some people's description that the target waypoint the zombies were heading towards was actually in the player's vicinity rather than beyond the player's location. I think the waypoints are supposed to be beyond the player's location so that might be a bug.

    So for the guy who had it happen the way it was supposed to happen congratulations. For the guy that had a different experience the best course is to see if you can make it happen consistently and even video it happening and post it so that faatal can fix it. Zombies should not be making a direct course right though the player. If the player is in their base and not moving and it happens then it is definitely a bug. If the player is out and moving around then there aren't guarantees that the player didn't inadvertently move into the path of the zombies after it was already determined based on the player's previous position.
    Last edited by Roland; 11-27-2018 at 06:06 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    They are both true obviously.

    The intended feature is that wandering hordes have a target they walk towards that is offset from the player anywhere from 30 - 50 meters if I am not mistaken. If they don't hear you or see you then they will continue onward. When they reach their target they disperse and remain in that area until they either despawn or a player happens upon them and kills them. If you've ever decided to follow a horde without killing them you'll see them reach a spot and then disperse in random directions every single time.

    The other relevant intended feature is that zombies don't attack blocks unless they are aware of a player.

    Deviations to the above behavior is the result of bugs or possibly networking errors. Sounds to me from some people's description that the target waypoint the zombies were heading towards was actually in the player's vicinity rather than beyond the player's location. I think the waypoints are supposed to be beyond the player's location so that might be a bug.

    So for the guy who had it happen the way it was supposed to happen congratulations. For the guy that had a different experience the best course is to see if you can make it happen consistently and even video it happening and post it so that faatal can fix it. Zombies should not be making a direct course right though the player. If the player is in their base and not moving and it happens then it is definitely a bug. If the player is out and moving around then there aren't guarantees that the player didn't inadvertently move into the path of the zombies after it was already determined based on the player's previous position.
    ....oops

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    They are both true obviously.

    The intended feature is that wandering hordes have a target they walk towards that is offset from the player anywhere from 30 - 50 meters if I am not mistaken. If they don't hear you or see you then they will continue onward. When they reach their target they disperse and remain in that area until they either despawn or a player happens upon them and kills them. If you've ever decided to follow a horde without killing them you'll see them reach a spot and then disperse in random directions every single time.

    The other relevant intended feature is that zombies don't attack blocks unless they are aware of a player.

    Deviations to the above behavior is the result of bugs or possibly networking errors. Sounds to me from some people's description that the target waypoint the zombies were heading towards was actually in the player's vicinity rather than beyond the player's location. I think the waypoints are supposed to be beyond the player's location so that might be a bug.

    So for the guy who had it happen the way it was supposed to happen congratulations. For the guy that had a different experience the best course is to see if you can make it happen consistently and even video it happening and post it so that faatal can fix it. Zombies should not be making a direct course right though the player. If the player is in their base and not moving and it happens then it is definitely a bug. If the player is out and moving around then there aren't guarantees that the player didn't inadvertently move into the path of the zombies after it was already determined based on the player's previous position.
    What I've noticed in my current run is this: the first 3ish random hordes wandered along at night while I was hunkered down inside a custom building (typical wood box starter shelter). Each time, they would walk right past it, sliding off the walls, while I hid in a corner. They never found me, and I'd go outside at first real light and snipe them all for the exp.

    When I moved into a garage to be closer to POIs, I first put a second floor in and I hide up there. My stealth number is about the same (often even less) than it was in the wood box. Now however, the zombies always find me (hiding on the second floor), and always attack, even without a torch (and I always had the torch on the wall inside the box). They also seem to attack objects outside before sensing me - I've heard them out there beating on each other and they took out a tree that was nearby while pathing towards my shelter garage. So the behavior seems to at least partially depend on what kind of place you are in.

    Also, the pathing has definitely been "right through me" on all of the hordes so far. 100% of them have tried to go through my current location for a spot past me from their starting point. Seems like a POI they will either sense you and attack, or else randomly attack solid objects like the POI while trying to path. I can't explain why they didn't do this to my wood box.

    My guess is that the calculation of the angle from start point to end point is broken and it's not applying any offset, and barring a comment from a dav I'm gonna go with "bug".

  6. #66
    Reconstructionist A Nice Cup of Tea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    The intended feature is that wandering hordes have a target they walk towards that is offset from the player anywhere from 30 - 50 meters if I am not mistaken.
    Is this 30-50m offset always perpendicular to the line drawn from their spawn point to the player's location, or is it in a random direction?

    Because if it is the latter then it's possible that their target point will take them directly over/past the player.

  7. #67
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    In my personal opinion, the option to turn on or off the possibility for a zombie to dig would suit everyone. It is enough that this feature would be in the *.xml file.
    I play with my wife and, frankly, the gaming experience, which combines the danger of finding resources on the surface and building a safe base underground, completely suits us. I'm afraid only one game mechanics(zombie dig ability) can become an insurmountable obstacle to our game.

    I would also like to thank the developer for the excellent game that brought a lot of interesting and fun moments.

    P.S. Sorry for google translate.
    Last edited by Darronus; 11-27-2018 at 04:52 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    They are both true obviously.

    The intended feature is that wandering hordes have a target they walk towards that is offset from the player anywhere from 30 - 50 meters if I am not mistaken. If they don't hear you or see you then they will continue onward. When they reach their target they disperse and remain in that area until they either despawn or a player happens upon them and kills them. If you've ever decided to follow a horde without killing them you'll see them reach a spot and then disperse in random directions every single time.

    The other relevant intended feature is that zombies don't attack blocks unless they are aware of a player.

    Deviations to the above behavior is the result of bugs or possibly networking errors. Sounds to me from some people's description that the target waypoint the zombies were heading towards was actually in the player's vicinity rather than beyond the player's location. I think the waypoints are supposed to be beyond the player's location so that might be a bug.

    So for the guy who had it happen the way it was supposed to happen congratulations. For the guy that had a different experience the best course is to see if you can make it happen consistently and even video it happening and post it so that faatal can fix it. Zombies should not be making a direct course right though the player. If the player is in their base and not moving and it happens then it is definitely a bug. If the player is out and moving around then there aren't guarantees that the player didn't inadvertently move into the path of the zombies after it was already determined based on the player's previous position.
    you might want to do some inhouse testing then because I have seen zeds attack trees and other stuff that absolutely did not see me. I think they are still doing the "its in my way so hit it" thing from a16.

    even had them hit the wall around my base while I was crouched in side not visible at all not moving or doing anything in total darkness. they did not see me and I had no forge or campfire going.
    the wall was just in the way

    on a side note, it was funny as hell to see a zed kill another just because it was in the way

    also this new wandering path thing often ends up with a horde stopping in the middle of the lake thats next to my base. I may need to fence it off for their protection.

  9. #69
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    My thoughts are split. I enjoyed mining and building a top base. I believe the solution is sound. How much noise are you making down there. Shovel being the least and auger being the most. Sound detection is already in the game so it would be an easy fix. Having said that the auger crazy hands of the zeds needs to be corrected. I would add that on BM all bets off so best to be up top IMO.
    On an expanded thought the noise level would be in relation to distance also. Example you start to dig a hole and are 10 blocks down and a zed passes overhead, I would think this would warrant detection. On the other end if your on bedrock using a pick axe you should be safe, your gonna have to come up and eat at some point. Mining is going to be a real drain on the food assets.
    Last edited by Hanzberger; 11-28-2018 at 01:14 AM.

  10. #70
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    Yeah, I've moved into the tops of apartment complexes and such and come back from scavenging, stealthy as can be and found zombies plowing through the foundation of the apartment complex when I know they were not detecting me; I was a building over, doing other stuff.

    It seems like the detection range for heat is super high like 7 stories up if I've got a fire going they're attacking the foundation at some point in the night or at least getting killed on spikes. I assumed that was intended.

  11. #71
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    Whilst i think that having a threat to the mole folk is a good thing, i just find their ability to do so is very over powered. Not every zombie should have the ability to dig either, it is just mind numbing and boring and the AI is a bit crap as well. I know this is only a game and many people have a specific mentality when it comes to gaming, but there is also the immersion factor and realism to consider as well.

    there is no way that a zombie has more digging capacity than an excavator, yet they can breeze through blocks easily. against concrete? they would smash themselves into mush.... but they have superhuman strength, they don't feel.... yes but they would still lose to reinforced concrete or stainless steel.

    there is already the capability for specialist zombies with screamers and spiders etc. why not have a specific digger zombie that you could target specifically and it has this specific function. does it have to show up on day 7? it should also be tied into game stage.

    breadcrumbs? more like big fokken neon signs haha

  12. #72
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    I just make my shaft to bedrock straight down. At the surface is my surface structure that I use to fight the horde. There is no dirt under this structure. I replace it all with cobblestone; around 5 or 6 layers... which is strong enough to make sure any wandering horde cannot get to me before morning and I play long nights. Technically, they can't even get to the cobblestone floor to start digging in the first place, because the surface structure has walls and spikes.
    It's not that hard.

  13. #73
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    Started reading some of this thread and keep hearing about "wanting to be safe". Real talk for a second, all I have to do is jump on a random poi and the zombies go in to the building accross the street and jump out of a window, this behavior loops. Zombies are not hard, this game is not really hard.

    I used to build a 7x7 underground so I can do stuff at night because sitting in a quiet corner waiting for morning isn't fun.

    Zombies digging is annoying in other ways as well. Make a noise in a poi and watch them start pounding down destroying the whole intended path of the poi. No matter if they are standing next to stairs or not..

    I wouldn't mind if they went for my hatch, broke it and flooded into my bunker, that would be cool but just destroying everything in the area when there is a clear path to the player is just annoying. It seems that whenever their brains fail they start pounding downward now.

    Yes I skipped a hord and stayed underground in the past because it gets boring sometimes, not because I need a safe place to hide. Some may say "that defeats the purpose" and I would respond "that depends on your purpose".

    Many people fell in love with this game the way it was. We played daily and for years so yes it's hard to accept change but if said change would work better I'm sure more people would be okay with it.

    As is now zombies will destroy the area you are in if you are underground and the funny part is grassy ground costs 16 dirt! At very least reduce that ridiculous cost to something reasonable since building underground will cost you lots of dirt now if you want to keep your area looking nice. Same as stone for mining, why does making stone for mining cost so much?

    I know the ai isn't finished, I expect it will get much better but if we are going to have digging zombies I hope they use the same super senses to find my hatch or the stairs they are standing next to before they start pounding the ground.

    Personally I have adapted, I stay above ground and I'm okay with it. I'm enjoying alpha 17 (lightly modded) but I undestand my fellow builders and undestand why they are upset. It definately isn't because they want to or need to hide from the horde.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellsmoke View Post
    Started reading some of this thread and keep hearing about "wanting to be safe". Real talk for a second, all I have to do is jump on a random poi and the zombies go in to the building accross the street and jump out of a window, this behavior loops. Zombies are not hard, this game is not really hard.

    I used to build a 7x7 underground so I can do stuff at night because sitting in a quiet corner waiting for morning isn't fun.

    Zombies digging is annoying in other ways as well. Make a noise in a poi and watch them start pounding down destroying the whole intended path of the poi. No matter if they are standing next to stairs or not..

    I wouldn't mind if they went for my hatch, broke it and flooded into my bunker, that would be cool but just destroying everything in the area when there is a clear path to the player is just annoying. It seems that whenever their brains fail they start pounding downward now.

    Yes I skipped a hord and stayed underground in the past because it gets boring sometimes, not because I need a safe place to hide. Some may say "that defeats the purpose" and I would respond "that depends on your purpose".

    Many people fell in love with this game the way it was. We played daily and for years so yes it's hard to accept change but if said change would work better I'm sure more people would be okay with it.

    As is now zombies will destroy the area you are in if you are underground and the funny part is grassy ground costs 16 dirt! At very least reduce that ridiculous cost to something reasonable since building underground will cost you lots of dirt now if you want to keep your area looking nice. Same as stone for mining, why does making stone for mining cost so much?

    I know the ai isn't finished, I expect it will get much better but if we are going to have digging zombies I hope they use the same super senses to find my hatch or the stairs they are standing next to before they start pounding the ground.

    Personally I have adapted, I stay above ground and I'm okay with it. I'm enjoying alpha 17 (lightly modded) but I undestand my fellow builders and undestand why they are upset. It definately isn't because they want to or need to hide from the horde.
    It would be so much cooler if the zombies would find your hatch and flood in like you say. Unfortunately people would just cheese it by just closing all the entrances with a block or something and the game dev's really don't want that.

    Personally I don't care about it but I guess if you want to give the feeling of never being 100% safe in the game I don't see how they could reconcile that.

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